I wouldn’t have had a problem with it … BEFORE they subverted those Evil Race tropes the way they did. Because the method they chose to humanize the races of the Horde was to loosely base their cultures around Hollywood Brand Non-European Cultures. Or composites of those types of groups. And they continue to add to that sort of foundation even up through BfA. Just look at Zandalar and the Vulpera for that. So when Blizz decided to get lazy, and go back to that classic GoodRace/EvilRace brand of tropes (while simultaneously whitewashing the sh*t out of the very EuroFantasy inspired Alliance races) … well they created quite the interesting theme.
In short, most of the Non-European inspired Races are deeply flawed, prone to evil monsters who are easily manipulated through their primitive and wrong faiths. While the European inspired Alliance are flawless paragons of every moral virtue ever conceived, and are regularly validated in their civilized faiths. And the only possible way left for a member of those Non-European Inspired Races to prove themselves “Not-Evil” anymore, is by how submissive and convenient they make themselves for the European Inspired ones lol! Truly, I cannot wait till Blizz tries to whitewash Blackmoore down the road. After they redeem Arthas of course.
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Arthas is such a great character who never ever needs to be revisited.
The writing was so ahead of its time. Like he behaves as if he’s aware he’s a handsome prince in a fairytale setting. Therefore everything he does must be the right call. Afterall who else is supposed to be the hero in this story, the Orc?
Turns out, yeah.
Now that I think about it, Blizz might’ve been able to sue DreamWorks over Shrek 2 if they had Activision lawyers back when.
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This is a good example. Look at how easy and effortless it is to marginalize the Alliance’s experiences in Warcraft 3, regardless of its lack of factual basis in the lore. You might as well say that Warcraft 3 didn’t involve the Alliance at all and people would genuinely believe it, so severed the Alliance has become from Warcraft 3.
Which is why I point out that it’s frustrating to see Horde appeals to Warcraft 3’s legacy treated as being legitimate whereas my appeals to Warcraft 3’s legacy are considered at best a relic of a different era that I need to move on from. How come I need to move on from Warcraft 3 and the Horde doesn’t?
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What are you even on about?
Lordaeron got thoroughly trashed, survivors going with Jaina and forming a colony in Kalimdor, Garithos and his forces killed off by the Forsaken and the rest becoming the Scarlets, Argents and the town of Southshore in WoW.
I agree. Empire of until 5 years ago evil undead to the North but we’ll worry quibble about payment for a wall that can keep the evil monsters out! 
That said, strictly speaking the Lordaeron Alliance broke apart something like 15 years before. The Elves withdrew from it to deal with their own “problems”. Gilneas withdrew because Greymane if memory serves didn’t agree with the Lordaeron king on how to handle the Orcs. Daelin was firmly in mind to commit genocide on the Orcs and thus pulled out to do his own thing. Alterac was destroyed. I feel like I missing someone. Any way.
The new Alliance was founded in Stormwind, post fall of Lordaeron. Which to be fair was still rebuilding from the sacking… however many years before. I’m a little fuzzy on the exact timelines. The only date I know for sure is that WoW classic started 5 years post WC3:Frozen Throne.
Edit: Grammar.
Nah. There is enough difference in material a copyright claim would fail.
I’m so tired of constantly needing to point out Lordaeron’s survivors and legacy and its presence culturally, in the timeline, and how the Horde themselves constantly tacitly admit that the Alliance is mostly from Lordaeron when they use the “Alliance rejected the Forsaken because they were traumatized by the Scourge” line of reasoning.
The fact that I constantly have to keep pointing it out speaks to what I’m complaining about. Blizzard does a terrible, terrible job connecting the Alliance to Warcraft 3 (the most popular and consequential game in the franchise) and when I complain about it people tell me that I just need to accept Alliance marginalization in that regard, but when the Horde does bad things there’s a torrent of complaints about how it deviates from the Horde’s portrayal in Warcraft 3.
So we get a situation where the Horde is permitted to hold up Warcraft 3 as a sacred model of the Horde’s roots that all of its narratives flow from but when I do the same with the Alliance I get “lol they’re all dead get over it”
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There is no New Alliance. It’s just the Alliance. It’s still even technically called “The Alliance of Lordaeron” as confirmed by Metzen himself in MoP but I forgive you for not knowing this because Blizzard sure doesn’t tell anyone about it.
The Alliance had members leave after the Second War but as of Warcraft 3 it still consisted of Lordaeron, Stormwind, Dalaran, Kul’Tiras, Ironforge, Gnomeregan, and Aerie Peak.
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Huh… That is strange. Can’t really call it an Alliance when most/all of the members pulled out. But that is just being nit-picky.
Quel’thalas, Gilneas, and Stromgarde pulled out by the events of Warcraft 3. More nations remained part of the Alliance than left it.
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Fair enough. Makes one wonder why they defaulted to an absent king and then a boy king as the primary leadership. But then again Human’s gotta rule right?
Sigh That is one thing I’ll give LotRO. The Dwarves had their own story. I don’t remember it anymore but it was there.
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True. But Prince Charming and Arthas are weirdly similar now that I think about it. Although I think they were allowed to be a bit more explicit with the former as you were never supposed to sympathize with him.
And what throws me is people still defending Arthas. Like the dude pulls a Hernan Cortez on his army long before he picks up Frostmourne. And that sword has a sign saying “Alert! Faustian Bargain Sword! Do Not Touch” sign next to it. And ghosts yelling “Bruh it’s cursed are we actually having to stop you right now” defending it. And a wise old Dwarf friend going “Laddie if you can’t see it the thing literally has Satan’s head on the hilt glaring at us”. And dude still picks it up.
Warcraft undead are my favorite. Because none of the evil ones are evil because of undeath. It may have given them license to cut loose a bit more. But Arthas was a monstrous, thundering fool long before his heart stopped.
Oh for the days when they did interesting things with human characters.
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I never understand why people act like “the entire city must be purged” is a totally normal thing to jump to and say it like he did, then insist on it in such a belligerent, friend ostracizing manner.
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Make no mistake, the Alliance was in dire, existential straits after Warcraft 3 and almost nobody thought that it could survive the blow that it received from the Third War, such a monumental disaster as it was.
But it endured. Although given what I’m complaining about, namely Blizzard pretty much ignoring it when crafting the Alliance narrative in WoW, I’m not even sure what the point was. It was an epoch-defining calamity that apparently you instantly forget about it you go south of Tarren Mill.
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What? You would pick up that mist-spewing bling? You heretic!!!
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To be perfectly honest that would be my response too. Maybe not the belligerent part but purging the whole city to stop the plague absolutely.
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Quel’thalas, Gilneas, and Stromgarde pulled out. Alterac had ceased to be a Kingdom due to its betrayal at the end of the 2nd War. That left Stormwind, Lordaeron, Kul Tiras, and Dalaran. With the Dwarven Kingdoms and Gnomergon sort of being included (though their lore was super meager back then). And Kul Tiras actually left the Alliance later around the events of WC3. It was a fragment of what it was in the 2nd War even before the fall of Lordaeron.
Xel is right, whether you like it or not. The current Alliance was built upon the Wrynn Dynasty. Not the Menethil one. Even the Alliance of Lordaeron Wiki refers to the factions status as "Defeated in the 3rd War, with most of it members regrouping in the “Grand Alliance”). With this “New Alliance” being an evolution of (and inspired by) the Alliance of Lordaeron.
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Lordaeron was an important part of the Alliance, but just one part. Warcraft 3 was a major shifting part of the story, so the balance of power among the human kingdoms shifting made sense for WoW.
And its story was about its destruction. The Blood Elves came about in the expansion and took the place of Humans in the new campaigns, where Lordaeron forces were antagonists in it and in the Undead campaign sections with Sylvanas, so even then the Lordaeron banner wasn’t being held up as the focal Alliance story.
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I mean I would. But frankly if the demon inside it wants to give trying to command my adhd butt around, go nuts.
“Yes! Yes! Torture the innocent! Oh, great, he left the sword in the garage, looked around his bedroom for it for 6 minutes then remembered to fold laundry. If I can just remind him to bring it next time he’s in traffic we’re solid and- and he’s gone and forgot the business cards too. I miss Ner’Zul”
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Imagine actually doing so with regards to real people. No special meta knowledge.
You will be personally killing and having your soldiers kill people, and in this case they probably wouldn’t conveniently just turn into zombies as soon as you come near them (and you wouldn’t know that would happen anyway).
You then tell a secondary father figure to do it to the point of destroying your relationship with him just because he didn’t jump for such a cruel, hard to perform (morally) action.
Are you some extremely hardened general IRL?