The High Elf Love Thread 🥰

[Firewoman-spirestone]

Who is Vanessa?

[Bourbonboxer-lightbringer (Bourbonboxer)]

Lorthemar also contemplated joining the Alliance in MoP… that doesn’t mean he gets along well with them.

Leinadh, do you think I wouldnt expect that counter? The difference is Vereesa’s story progression…makes zero sense in comparison to Lor’themars.

I also see nine people who also havent picked up War Crimes, so let me teach you guys.

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Lor’themar’s story progression comes from the idea of what was going on with Garrosh’s progression into genocidal madness. Where the races other than orcs were beginning to be treated less and less kindly in the Horde. Due to the amounts of animosity from Garrosh and the Kor’kron, Lor’themar was debating on leaving until there was a plan by Garrosh to steal the Divine Bell…which led to the Purge of Dalaran and caused Lorthemar to back out.

This is called a decent story progression and made a questioning Lorthemar turn back to being hard Horde after an Alliance act of mass imprisonment/murder.

Vereesa, in the same expansion, had just lost her husband and a percentage of her people to the events at Theramore and also BLAMED the Horde heavily for their deaths. She actively takes a role in the Purge of Dalaran by crippling the Sunreavers from escaping a purge and being aiding in their mass imprisonment/murder. This continues into the Siege of the Isle of Thunder, where she wanted to FIGHT the Horde for revenge for Rhonin’s death.

So we have established that Vereesa is very pro-Alliance and extremely vengeful for her husband’s death who she linked to the Horde…so why in the literal aftermath of Mists in the book War Crimes does she suddenly take in mind the idea of joining the Horde?

My point is that Vereesa as a character is one of the worst written and confusing characters; because the game writers want to show her off as heavily pro-Alliance…but the book writers continue this story of her being neutral and at times pro-blood elf. Can you explain that to me?

Has Lorthemar contemplated joining the Alliance or not? If people want to get down to “vereesa almost quit alliance” lets look at the whole picture.

Did Lor’themar lose his wife and blame the Alliance, partake in a purge of Alliance citizens in a neutral town, and be openly vengeful towards them before making these plans?

Vereesa literally did all of these of the course of one expansion without any support to why she goes from hardline Alliance to nearly joining the Horde.

Vereesa was about to bail because she misses her sister and her home and had JUST lost her husband.

“God, the Horde killed my husband and betrayed the Alliance in a neutral setting…but I miss my banshee sister so Ima switch sides” makes zero sense.

Stop trying to defend it.

[Bourbonboxer-lightbringer (Bourbonboxer)]

Was it an internal moment? Something she was just thinking or did she actually begin making motions for it. There is a big differenece.

She was literally about to poison Garrosh and join her sister, until she thought about her kids. Not the Alliance or her people or her friends or her husband’s death.

You know: all the things she hated the Horde for during Mists.

Double standards? Look at the long discussion about vereesa apparently wanting to hop sides, but lorthemar wanting to doesnt count apparently and these convoluted tactics to try and explain it away. Sheesh.

Ok Kirela, tell me how Vereesa progresses from wanting to kill the Horde for Rhonin to about joining it…in the progression we know of. It would have to be something very drastic since the trial was right after the ending of MoP.

Veressa wanting to be with her sister in a moment of grief and get vengeance one the one responsible for her husband’s death. But coming to her senses and to this day supports the Alliance.

The Alliance wasnt the reason she didnt poison him.

She literally equates being in the Horde as not being in the right state of mind.

Thats a lie. It was all about her children not fitting in the Undercity with her sister and the Forsaken. Joining the Horde was never in her mind as a deterrent to following Sylvanas.

It was just her kids, nothing else.

[Bourbonboxer-lightbringer (Bourbonboxer)]

I like how every faction based interaction with the Silver Covenant, their description, cerent Xpac interactions, and Vanessa’s most recent lore shows they are 100% an Alliance faction.

Vaneesa VanCleef has interacted with the Silver Covenent?

[Bourbonboxer-lightbringer (Bourbonboxer)]

When its a story device and not anything that comes to pass? You betcha. Because saying “oh vereesa ALMOST went to be with her sister therefore shes neutral” is as silly as “the blood elves ALMOST went alliance because lorthemar was discussing it.”

No its not actually since you are simplifying it. Lorthemar was making a decision for the safety of his people since Garrosh was literally on the orc supremacy drive and treating the other races like Class B citizens in his True Horde mindset.

You may use as much defense as you want to Vereesa: grief, emotion, sadness…but the problem is that how the character is utilized in the WoW setting is that she has no love for the Horde.

So why is Vereesa about to go from venegeful pro-Alliance to joining the Horde as co-leader of the Forsaken? Because remember…that was Sylvanas’ deal. Vereesa was going to take up a leadership role in the HORDE, not just being a refugee or a citizen…but a key leader in the power structure.

I mean if you, Leinadh, and the rest of your cohorts want to defend garbage writing which basically kills any credibility for the main NPC you guys worship…by all means, amuse me.

[Drede-cairne (Drede)]

Thats a lie. It was all about her children not fitting in the Undercity with her sister and the Forsaken. Joining the Horde was never in her mind as a deterrent to following Sylvanas.

It was just her kids, nothing else.

You misread what I said. I was referring to three sisters as well.

The most current lore on the subject.

[Bourbonboxer-lightbringer (Bourbonboxer)]

You misread what I said. I was referring to three sisters as well.

The most current lore on the subject.

None of it changes what I said. Three Sisters reinforces my point. At no point did her loyalties and ties to the Alliance matters.

Sure, she was filled with grief, emotion, blah, blah blah…but it doesnt change the fact she spend the majority of the events of that expac literally blaming the Horde for her husband’s death and attempting to kill/imprison all the Sunreavers.

It doesnt make it make sense.

[Trollingwarc-steamwheedle-cartel]

Elves need to get off the dope and live clean…

[Repopriesto-skeram]

blood elves are high elves

[Bourbonboxer-lightbringer (Bourbonboxer)]

If you guys want to use a whataboutism to defend garbage Golden writing, could you find a better one?

[Licynia-sargeras]

Light willing, this is true. I’m praying so hard that these leaks are nothing but a red herring for something truly amazeballs

[Kirela-arygos (Kirela)]

No its not actually since you are simplifying it. Lorthemar was making a decision for the safety of his people since Garrosh was literally on the orc supremacy drive and treating the other races like Class B citizens in his True Horde mindset.

I know why he was considering it. I don’t see what difference it makes.

but the problem is that how the character is utilized in the WoW setting is that she has no love for the Horde.

Vereesa has no love for the horde? I am glad we agree.

[Broflake-illidan]

But was willing to join them, until she remembered her children.

[Drede-cairne (Drede)]

The entire point was that she was grief and was seaking comfort with her sister.

It wasn’t a Horde/Alliance thing at all.

It was meant to be emotional and crazy. That was to point.

You can’t just “blah, blah, blah…” over that part.

[Fyrebusche-wyrmrest-accord]

i think it says everything when 1 dalaran aligned high elf almost joining the horde causes this much discussion

after all, you have so many alliance aligned high elves in stormwind and fighting in the faction war whats 1 less?

[Bourbonboxer-lightbringer (Bourbonboxer)]

I know why he was considering it. I don’t see what difference it makes.

Because Lorthemar’s progression of why is makes plans for the blood elves to become Alliance makes sense with his past of working with Alliance agents and issues presented by Garrosh are well documented in the story and make snese to the plot.

Vereesa’s transition to about to kill Garrosh and join her sister as a leader of the Forsaken when having a clear history of being resentful to the Horde and openly aggressive to them…the progression is lackluster and does not make sense. Grief and emotion arent good reasons for why a character would make a complete 180 from their morals/values.

And if you view them as good reasons, then why is Vereesa a leader ofthe high elves when she is blatantly irrational and easily manipulated into consorting with her hated foes?

Vereesa has no love for the horde? I am glad we agree.

And in Kirela fashion, Kirela doesnt read in context.

The entire point was that she was grief and was seaking comfort with her sister.

Ok…and? I didnt know it was a valid progression for someone to literally betray everything they supposedly stand for, side with the supposed ‘murderers’ of her husband, and want to take a leadership role of those same people…because she sad.

Come on man, thats a reach and you know it.

You can’t just “blah, blah, blah…” over that part.

You can, because “she sad” isnt a good justification for why she would even want to do it.

So Drede: based on that logic, is it okay for you to go out and murder people because you are overwhelmed with grief? Is it a logical progression of someone’s mentality? Is it justifiable?

I mean, Drede you are saying its completely justifiable for someone to completely 180 their own morals and values because “they sad”…but you wouldnt say no, that would be a double standard.

[Drede-cairne (Drede)]

Ok…and? I didnt know it was a valid progression for someone to literally betray everything they supposedly stand for, side with the supposed ‘murderers’ of her husband, and want to take a leadership role of those same people…because she sad.

Come on man, thats a reach and you know it.

When it’s trying to show someone not in their right mind then it is.

You are totally skimming over the context for no good reason.

It was looking like Garrosh was about to go free. She reconnected with her sister and was in a deteriorating mental state do to grief.

That is the entire point. She was going nuts and was desperate and lost sight of herself in attempt at revenge.

Yet that seems to be okay if it proves some ridiculous point in an argument when taken out of context…

You can, because “she sad” isnt a good justification for why she would even want to do it.

So Drede: based on that logic, is it okay for you to go out and murder people because you are overwhelmed with grief? Is it a logical progression of someone’s mentality? Is it justifiable?

I mean, Drede you are saying its completely justifiable for someone to completely 180 their own morals and values because “they sad”…but you wouldnt say no, that would be a double standard.

Who said I was trying to justify it?

I’m just trying to clear it up for people that don’t understand.

[Rreifren-grobbulus]

is this sarcasm? a joke? trolling?

the silver covenant didn’t join the blood elves BECAUSE they didn’t like that the blood elves abandoned the alliance. Those high elves that remained in human and dwarf lands chose to stick with the alliance most of them since warcraft 2 as those exiled with warcraft 3 all went to the plaguelands lodge.

[Haitahwa-argent-dawn (Haitahwa)]

Shouldn’t you be discussing this on the HE thread?

[Rreifren-grobbulus]

isn’t the high elf megathread immediately shut down again by mass flagging once it comes back up?