The majority of casual players making threads about this problem just want decent rewards and are calling Blizzard out for it, and then you have these bad faith trolls coming in to tell them that they aren’t deserving of decent rewards because “bad players don’t deserve things,” which not only misses the point entirely but manages to obfuscate the issue to begin with.
I would say that 70-80% of the time, any drama that is instigated on the forum stems from either a troll or a high-end player who let their ego go to their head. A significant portion of these current threads about the state of LFR have been hijacked by trolls and high-end players belittling other players.
I have been told that because I enjoy raiding above Normal and M+ above 10:
I do not have a job
I am a whale target for Blizzard
I am uneducated
I do not have a family
I do not have a social life.
I tie my sense of self worth to a video game
And these terms are associated with anyone that enjoys that content.
I’m not denying that you aren’t faced with toxicity, and it sucks that you are faced with that provided that you are respectful and considerate of others in threads.
However, my point is that most of the drama that occurs on these forums doesn’t stem from casual players being toxic, but almost always someone trying to devolve perfectly harmless threads about the game’s appeal to higher-end players and neglect of lower-end players. As I said, most of the threads discussing the problem with LFR are making totally valid points and nearly all of them have deteriorated into mudslinging contests.
And here’s the thing you have to look at, man: Half of us just want decent rewards. The other half wants to exclude us from decent rewards. One is inherently a more toxic stance to take over the other. I think the disconnect here, for me, anyways, is the idea that the other side should be reasoned with. That’s not to say that we shouldn’t be respectful, but it’s clear that these people are coming into these threads with an agenda.
I’m not saying any justifies the toxicity. Just how it began.
And especially in the mount discussiion overall. The attention was on Blizz changing the achievement. Until trolls started trying to use it to flex. They were in the glass house throwing stones.
Now I agree that it should all stop, because it’s all distracting from the real issue.
Though personally Id make about 75% of that list the ‘failed raider wannabes’ who cant even do it good enough to keep up with normal raiding, let alone anything any more complicated.
They failed and they know it, and they need someone to trash to build that ego back up.
Why else would 95% of them foam about LFR, then have a long history of LFR participation in their profile?
And then you’ll get the ones who hide their profile to keep you from figuring it out lol
And they are gods among men when they come down to lowbie runs. You can pick them out of a line up. The run goes like clockwork.
while the ‘raider wannabes’ are the clowns who keep chain pulling all those fearing mobs causing wipes in leveling dungeons lmao
I think part of the conversation is that even within the “half” (of both sides) there is wildly different definitions of what qualifies as a decent reward. And based on the different definitions, both can be extremely toxic.
I think ignoring that many people who just “want decent rewards” often ask for rewards on par with the highest difficulty in ilvl isn’t the best. And this conclusion has sorta a biased view.
Who fired first 15 years ago should be irrelevant.
Cause and effect are very important. Context is important. Don’t yell at one side when the other both instigated it and keeps it going. They can stop the toxicity. They’d rather troll.
“I will not be the bigger man, because the side that I believe started it 15+ years ago I feel is more at blame. I will continue to insult them until they grow up and stop insulting me first. Sure. The people I am conversing with are not the ones that started it 15+ years ago. But their SIDE did. So that absolves me from any personal responsibility from helping end a negative relationship, and allows me the freedom to continue to insult them guilt free. Cause its all their fault”
I see posts like this, then I go and play classic and wonder what posters like you are talking about. There is nothing casual friendly about that version of the game. A simple gather quest can take over an hour due to the toughness of the NPCs and the extremely low drop rate. Currency is extremely scarce and there are times you have to do a lot of farming just to buy your first mount. Gatekeeping was ten times worse because there was only one version of the RAId with no LFR and if you wanted to do one you almost HAD to be in a guild because there was no LFG feature. LFR was created specifically because too many players were not able to participate in the raids. Retail is 100 times more friendly to casuals than Vanilla or TBC ever was.
Far as the slim minority hating LFR player(and that’s all it really is), who cares? I don’t care what some mythic elitist thinks of me. If this is another thread about the stupid mount, then go do the normal raid and stop complaining about it. The shear amount of crying I’ve been seeing over this mount is embarassing.
I haven’t insulted them. I’ve tried to steer the conversation back to it’s original topic. I’ve just stated as a witness, how it all started. You yourself are throwing it off topic. Let mods handle what you are concerned about.
It should be a conversation on the achievement being changed.
You don’t have to agree with it, but generally speaking a lower-end player just wanting to be considered for better rewards has little to do with higher-end players and more to do with Blizzard. Making claims that Blizzard caters to higher-end players is not a slight against higher-end players but a fact that Blizzard’s intentions and priorities are very much skewed towards one player group. Whereas on the other hand, higher-end players who disagree with this sentiment are directly targeting lower-end players. One is still inherently more toxic than the other, which contributes to this toxic cycle far more than someone upset that they are being excluded from rewards.
I’m sure some lower-end players get the distinction confused and end up targeting higher-end players instead, but the intentions between the two are inherently different.
I mean, sure? But I think when the WoW forums have been oversaturated with threads about LFR, that indicates that a not marginal amount of people feel this way.
It’s just wannabe elitists who need to make themselves feel superior to others. Typical online bully behavior.
I say this as a H/M raider who does M+ heavily for KSM/H when it’s new and loves difficult solo challenges. I do LFRs myself for cosmetics a few times a week and very infrequently run into trolls or toxic players. The problem is more the queue times with less people playing now. The odd times there is a very toxic player, they get kicked. I was hoping fated and the mount would help improve this.
If you disagree with players who focus in one type of content being excluded from obtaining a reward that was originally available to them without a valid reason to stand on, that is toxic.
Most of the players trolling these threads don’t have a reason for why this is okay other than “LFR player bad,” which is, again, toxic.
Dude, lower-end content is a trash fire. It’s not interesting, engaging, and certainly doesn’t have the longevity that higher-end content does. People will naturally gravitate towards wanting things that keep them playing if the rewards are bad and the content isn’t fun. There is a reason why WoW’s design philosophy is often referred to as the “three pillars.” It’s because nothing else in the game realistically matters. Nobody would care about what higher-end players get if their content had any development efforts put into it. It’s dishonest to think otherwise.
If you enjoy running LFR then that is fine. The content has been designed for you, after all.
I think the real problem lies on the feeling of being stuck running LFR that I see a lot of player having. They want to move into normals, but they feel held back by whatever reason and solving those issues should be the focus.
