Years and Years of Gameplay being designed around gear treadmilling being the sole metric of player progression.
This game lives or dies by that particular core loop. and LFR is at the bottom of the rung.
The rest progresses naturally out from that.
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Idk why people care what others have or don’t have, especially in this situation when normal is easier than LFR.
Because people get grumpy when they think even for a second, that something might be stepping into their own territory, or stepping on toes.
People are just angry they don’t have a monopoly on who gets to to see the inside of a raid or not.
The difficulty doesn’t matter, if you don’t like it being simple, go do it on normal or higher.
Constnatly you hear people complaining anytime LFR gets anything, from teir gear to small awards, more often than not LFR doesn’t even get things like crafting materials or unique items or mounts.
People are really weird when it comes to demanding people play the game the same way they do. You see this all over the place in WoW. If you’re not playing the way Player Z does, then player Z wants things to be changed to where only the way they play is the way that is proper.
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Hello, I see you made a thread on angry gamers. One thing that I do find fascinating about this thread is the sheer amount complaining, whining, and downright hatred over supposed toxicity and elitism that World of Warcraft fosters, yet, all of these people seem to have no issue continuing to give Blizzard money! Researchers should be here to study this crazy phenomenon, haha!
Thanks for your post and have a great day!
First of all, as someone who plays both games these two things (LFR and Alliance Raids) are only similar on the idea they are a large raid that you can queue for that is generally easy to clear. Outside of that they are much different, namely an Alliance Raid is considered as side story activity rather than the actual raid itself just having another difficulty (This is bad and I will explain later) and there’s never been any confusion about who or what it’s for. Alliance Raids have always been essentially alt-gear/catch-up gear for people who don’t do savage and are just capped on tomestone gear, with a weekly clear of the newest raid letting them take a piece to the same item level as Savage gear.
Whereas in WoW, the LFR is not taken seriously nor is it meant to, and a lot of the fights and just the general design encourages a very lazy “hit boss a few times, afk, collect loot” atmosphere. This for a while was not a problem unless important items were in there that necessitated doing LFR because the LFR trinket was better than not having it over other options, most infamously here is Bindings of Immerseus because even the LFR version was still a flat 5% boost to all secondary stats for casters.
Where this becomes a problem from players is that they see that kind of environment, then the constant complaining that “LFR players don’t get any good gear” and inevitably demand more when what they are doing to most people outside of the LFR do not feel is an equivalent level of input for the level of output. It comes off as I guess you could say entitled. Especially when to sate this exact issue for two expansions we had titanforging and everyone remotely serious about their gear hated this system because it just made the treadmill that much bigger because you had to be doing everything because titanforging might make it worth using. This is why melee dps were still running the first actual tier of Legion from 7.1.5 when the raid from 7.3 was in the game, because a titanforged convergence could end up on par ilvl wise with Antorus stuff and its passive made it already a powerful trinket, titanforging prevented its lack of comparative primary stats a non-issue but a grindy one for people.
The other problem that I’m now finally getting around to is its another difficulty when Normal exists and is already basically as easy as LFR. LFR mostly exists at this point because people do not want to apply to groups, here’s more of where that entitlement view comes in play by the way, people think they should just be matched with people, pretty much be unable to be kicked, and be rewarded with good items for it. In a way it caters to players just expecting it all to come to them and fosters that exact view.–
However when I say it’s another difficulty, that means the item levels are based around it. This is why the item level inflation has gotten so bad recently, because LFR of next tier tends to be Heroic of last tier. This is just more item levels they need to jump up. Every tier in Legion was a 45 item level jump effectively, on top of titanforging. In earlier iterations this disparity was not nearly as huge. In Vanilla the stat differences between a tier are not that big in all honesty, most classes are using gear from older raids quite often there as BiS pieces. In Legion we started where M0 was 840 item level or so, we ended where the only LFR player due to titanforging could be sitting on about 960, 30 item levels above what the raid dropped in that difficulty and for what reason exactly? At that point it’s basically forcing huge jumps in item level that bloat the game and inevitably must be turned back, leading to tons of scaling issues all because people deliberately choosing to kneecap themselves at the lowest level of content feel entitled to rewards on par with those from activities/difficulties where one may actually need to apply themselves. When you raise the floor, you also raise the median line and anybody that was slightly above it, or on it has now fallen under it. So people who are running content like m+ for gear from the dungeon now basically have to force themselves into higher level keys to have an acceptable item level, obviously this might agitate them if they are struggling as it is and that being forced on them would be due to raising the item level floor.
IDK why I wrote this much exactly because this post by most people is only going to get seen of as “This guy things LFR players shouldn’t have the best gear in the game” and little else. Another reason why people are also negative towards LFR, a lot of forum discussion around it basically boils down to kicking and screaming and refusal to actually acknowledge any negatives or raise any valid points.
Yes, because players in an MMO typically are not fond of the idea of needing to do a difficulty well beneath them. Most people with jobs don’t even do that, usually if someone gets a salary job they refuse to go back to hourly unless it’s just unbearable for them. It’s become beneath them.
The LFR was by design meant to be a tourist difficulty setting so players could see the story, it was never meant to be about gear. When the gear is things that actually are needed in their heroic pieces or are suitable, i.e tier slots they haven’t gotten, or busted trinkets like Bindings of Immerseus it forces them to do that just to possibly have it and hope they get the piece from their actual difficulty later. Wouldn’t be a problem if Blizzard would difficulty lock the tier bonuses but they won’t do that.
What has happened is players lost sight of that and treat it like it’s meant to be their paradise once a week to collect gear and that gear should be on par with harder difficulties. You say to look at players when LFR gets anything, okay, and look at LFR players when they don’t get something. Do we really need to revisit WoD’s loot tables and the expansion long screaming that kicked off? How about Antorus not giving trinkets and people losing their mind over that? Or how about the legendary bow?
I just find it funny because LFR players when you’re arguing against LFR go on and on about how “It’s about seeing the content, the gear doesn’t even matter!” Then the second that gear gets touched, or they feel it isn’t good enough, they go ballistic. So on one hand the gear doesn’t matter because it’s just to see the content, but the gear also does matter and LFR isn’t just about seeing the content.
The SAME EXACT PEOPLE will give you these conflicting arguments simultaneously in a single discussion that goes on more than 6 posts. I have seen it more than enough.
And that’s the problem. This behavior is toxic and would have punished in other games. I’m sure you love to point fingers on the “casuals” but the problem also starts with you, not with them.
why ?
and why call it fear?
are you being the passive aggressive player who can’t understand a lack of validation of their choice of leisure activity?
do you lack perspective to that extent?
WoW costs 50 cents a day to play in an immersive world. its a good choice, why ask people to forsake their fun for your addiction ?
Who cares?
If you want to push the edge and min-max, then you put the effort into min-maxing.
God forbid people get nice things without having to turn a video game into a 2nd job.
I personally care more about the casual playerbase and low teir players more than I will ever care about the medium or high teir players. 
LFR shouldn’t be excluded from stuff like Sylvanas’s bow, the mounts, or crafting materials.
It’s a tourist mode, the gear should be a step down from normal, as it always has. Which generally puts it about Mythic+0 or slightly above Mythic+0 gear.
No issues here, don’t really want to hear complaints from people that decide they want to min-max as hard as they can… except whenever the min-maxing inconviences them. 
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Are you aware of what Blizzard EU wrote about the erotic play in Goldshire?
It’s basically the same problem here on a whole different level: The domino effect.
People don’t try harder stuff due the community and because it’s a community problem (add-ons, behavior, harassment) it needs a complete rework. I rather would not want to push people to do something which will move them completely from the game away. Casuals don’t stay if they get harassed, they never come back.
If you want to change the perception, you need to change the whole system. And that’s something Blizzard can’t do without consequences as a whole (like with Goldshire).
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it was a tweet from his personal Twitter account. i don’t remember seeing an announcement on the bnet launcher or in game
It’s not a raid difficulty, it’s larping.
You could have made the case of it being a raid difficulty in Cata, but it’s been nerfed heavily since then.
Blizzard has made it very clear, the needs of the 1% out weigh the needs of the many.
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What gets me as well is how ugly in colour some of the LFR gear is as well. Is it that much harder to not make it a kind of hideouts green? Would it really hurt if it didn’t look a little bit nicer? (MOP LFR stuff looked nice so it is possible)
The ‘ugly’ of LFR gear really feels like a petty cherry, on a spiteful sundae to me.
I love this game, I do, but really FF14 has no issue giving players at any level nice looking stuff to wear. WOW just feels so far behind, and living in the ‘raid or you get nothing’ era.
Who are the people who still get angry if a ‘casual’ has some flashy gear to wear? Who?
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People place their sense of entitlement and worth into what they can accomplish in video games. Once they accomplish higher tasks, some people feel rewarded and intrinsic value, which is great. They feel their hard work paid off. Others may feel that they are suddenly more deserving of things than players who did not accomplish that same task. It’s a completely whacky system based entirely on ego.
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I don’t personally hate it. But I can understand why there is backlash.
The forums constantly belittle anyone that does any raiding over LFR. This can create a defensive/toxic mindset wanting people to backlash.
The vocal casual playerbase is extremely negative towards people that plays at higher difficulties. So it makes sense some return the favor. It creates a feedback loop.
Oh look
The last time Blizz tried to funnel people into harder difficulty, it did not work. And all of the comparisons of the harder difficulties are very much off topic.
Because the real issue is Blizz had the mount listed for all difficulties for months (it’s still in game), then announced on the forums just before Season 4, that it is changing.
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Am I wrong? Have we not witnessed some people who place their sense of worth in the game based on what they accomplish in the game?
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Yes. I have witnessed that. From both raiders and non raiders.
But implying that every single raider is like that…which many people do. Is just stupid.
Those sentiments along with saying that anyone that does higher m+/raiding has no job, no family, no friends, etc. Is a very very common attitude here on the forums.
Those statements are regularly applied to everyone that does that sorta content. And its just as wrong as the people that insult LFR/solo world players/etc.
Edit : Also, I do not consider someone supporting a system of “harder task, greater reward” as someone tying their sense of worth into the game. I also think that the attitude of assuming someone is, is generally…toxic. And its based on finding a way to dismiss others. Very few people, if any, have any sense of tying their sense of self worth to WoW.
So… I don’t get your original response to me then.
I didn’t. I literally said:
Implying that different players feel differently about accomplishing difficult tasks. Others just feel good about it, which is what you’re supposed to feel after accomplishing a task, but some like to bar out other people for not thinking they may be deserving of a reward for not accomplishing that same task.
You said that, not me. I have never implied such things.
I agree that many toxic statements are being said.
I digress. You have already agreed with me that you have witnessed people tie their sense of worth into a video game and the difficult tasks that they can achieve in that video game. I never said it was the majority, or even half, but you agree with me that it happens so I don’t understand why we are picking apart this argument so thoroughly.