The Graphics War


#234

patch 1.13 isn’t “authentic” however that’s what the stress test was running.


(Bananaynay) #235

As I enjoy seeing people defending toggle option. You really can’t prove anything to those people.
THey are stubborn and egoistic. And they will deny anything that they think is “OH GOSH RUINING MUH EXPERIENCE CAUSE THIS WASN’T IN MUH VANILLA”
ANd they can’t properly defend this. They will use only three “arguments” to oppose your logic:

  • nochange hashtag
  • go play BFA if you like new models (which is absurd cause I personally stating that I love classic for its gameplay, and want just personal toggle for more joy and better experience)
  • this wasn’t in vanilla thuse shouldn’t be in classic (when there are already dozen of features that ALREADY in classic and WILL be in classic, but wasn’t in vanilla, btu they are okay with this)

#236

I am not “okay” with any of it. It must just seem that way in your world view because I’m not making rage threads (like you, Beilia, and a few others) about it. I’ve certainly submit my feedback in the stress client client feedback tool, though.

Blizzard has already provided their justification on why the not-classic things are not classic (n the majority of cases). Most of which boil down to them starting with the Legion client and being unwilling to go through minutia they feel is insignificant given their time constraints/deadlines and that it would be a pandoras box of complications to try and marry the two clients together.

To quote that same exact article.

After this past year of working on this project and forging our way through the various bugs and challenges, one consistent theme that’s emerged is that the difference between what we have and what we want is clearly visible. When we look at today’s World of Warcraft, we can see the differences between the modern game and the classic one. If we tried to update the reference client, we would have instead been tracking down a lot of “invisible” changes such as exploits waiting to be abused, crashes that don’t show up until you have millions of players online at once, and more. We chose to approach the problem in a way that makes our job clear and obvious instead of difficult and hard to see.

Regardless of my opinion, Blizzard has provided an answer on most of the non-classic things and why they won’t be making them authentic. I don’t have to like it, and I don’t like it. And like I’ve said, I’ve submit feedback using the appropriate tool.

Ironically, they’ve already provided an answer to the “new models” thing too (by the quoted article I know you’ve seen many, many times). Yet, we have hundreds of rage-replies from the entitled group I dub #catertomypreferences insisting toggles to suit their personal preferences. For the record, I’ve never used “#nochanges”, hashtag campaigns are stupid (which is why I’m using it as a pejorative to reference the group wanting new models).

“go play BFA” is a suitable solution for those wanting the new models, as it’s the only place you’re going to get new models. If you want new models AND classic WoW, you’re out of luck :man_shrugging:


(Akaidian) #237

I can explain it, though you’re going to think it’s selfish. It is, and I still see no problem.

Anyone that wants modern graphics and cares enough to not play classic because of it is already someone I don’t want in the game. It’s a filter meant to quell the masses.


#238

Here is another problem I see repeatedly on this forum. There are more arguments against a toggle than this.

The one that consistently gets ignored (probably because there is no way to refute it) is this: It will take too much effort to make it work and keep it current with changes to the new models and animations. This is evidenced by them removing the toggle in the current game.

I’ve seen at least a few people (like me) pointing out that they are not opposed to the toggle in theory but in practice think it should be skipped because there are more important things to spend dev time on. Again, if Blizzard wanted to do a toggle, or thought it was important, it would still exist in BfA.


#239







(Daesûl) #240

Basically, they’d need to create 8 “new” races. That would work…no?
Personally, I don’t like the Disney models or how they act. But, that’s me. I have no more or less right than the next person. I will say though, that I don’t think they “fit” with the old world. That said, with the option to set graphics to modern…that thought is effectively undermined. So really, Blizz has left this effectively open-ended. Maybe now we have old models. Personally I’d like to see it stay that way. But I’m not at all confident about it remaining that way.


(Azoun) #241

I can use new models right now on private server so it’s not even hard to do. Toggle also means you don’t have to see it yourself. Literally no argument against it.


#242

So the OP is basically, “We shouldn’t be fighting, so just submit to calls for a toggle!”

Low energy…


#243

No, it’s far more complicated than that.

Models aren’t just characters. They’re rocks, trees, buildings, stumps, logs, carts, literally everything and their accompanying textures. It’s HUGE!

So basically you need an entirely separate map placement table that places each new file in its respective place throughout the world. The file names aren’t the same, so it won’t just overlay. The people using newer models in the old 1.12 client don’t realize that it’s renaming and placing the models. Many new models don’t work or aren’t in yet, because the person probably never got around to it or just missed a good amount of things.

It’s not quite as simple as people think. Completely swapping the models can’t just be plugged in like a simple LUA script addon. It has to be hard coded into the client. Then you need the robust feature set that swaps everything and reads from a different directory, on the fly. They would have to go through and make sure every single new models name is the same as it’s classic counterpart.

This isn’t a light switch they can just turn on and off. Blizzard knew exactly what this was. That’s why they obviously compromised a bit by using older models and textures, rendered at a slightly higher resolution, and left in a toggle for residual components like the new water, increased foliage, and new lighting with shadows.


(Seraca) #244

Oh god I freaking lol’ed.

You act like it’s a damn privilege that they get this.

“We can allow people with disabilities to participate”

LISTEN UP COLOR BLIND PEOPLE THIS IS A PRIVILEGE YOU’RE BEING GIVEN TO BE ALLOWED TO PLAY CLASSIC!

Oh god lol.


#245

I think he was being sarcastic toward anyone who would consider it a “change.”


(Daesûl) #246

No, I get that. A “toggle” to switch back and forth, would be far more complicated. I was thinking more along the lines of choosing at character creation, either this way or that. Old or New. Once you’ve created your character, it’s staying that way until you delete it. Not toggling in game between the two.
Most if not all of this polarized community would play as either old or new. I don’t recall any one poster saying they’d flip-flop. So anyway, that was my stab at a solution.


#247

That’s because Blizzard isn’t going to waste their time with updating the animations of old models that no one uses anymore…


#248

The problem for me is the download. I like to keep windows and my primary 2-3 games on my m.2 drive, which is smaller than my ssd. So the space on the m.2 is valuable, and I don’t want to rip my laptop apart to replace it, plus deal with Microsoft’s hardware guard.

As long as I’m not forced to download the new models and textures, I don’t care what they do. No point in being forced to install 40 gigs for a 9 gig game though. I’m very OCD about anything I don’t need or want being on my PC. I have a 1TB ssd in it too, and I barely used 70 gigs, because so can’t stand worthless clutter…

I imagine there are some who might feel the same, either due to the same OCD, or system restrictions.


(Derka) #249

If this was Vanilla WoW Remastered, fine. Personal opinion, I wouldn’t say no to the updated models being in Classic.

However, this is Classic WoW and those old dated graphics are the genunie article to what we had in Vanilla. Making this into one of those empty “This doesn’t affect you” arguments is just wasting the energy you used to type it out because it doesn’t matter.


#250

To add to your point, this is a museum piece. You don’t see museums replacing priceless artifacts with new shiny items…


(Daesûl) #251

It was supposed to be. Then they went all graphics set to max, and there went that. Don’t get me wrong, I agree 100% with you. It’s just mute now.


#252

"Oh, look. They’re making a Classic version of WoW for all the people who want that authentic Vanilla experience. I might try that out!

Well, it seems okay, but here’s a list of changes I need you to make so it suits me better personally."

-Waaaaay too many people.


(Lazurianis) #253

That remains to be your opinion, I didn’t discuss art style, I didn’t bring up what I thought in that statement, nothing about what I said was an opinion, I’m unsure why that isn’t being reciprocated, and appears to be a common trend for “pro-HD model” supporters. My statement and point of view is implicit. That being said - everyone’s Classic experience is different, nothing about my statements asked about the experience of others. That is a completely different subject, and I don’t understand why it is relevant to the current discussion, especially considering no one’s Classic experience involved, involves, or will involve HD models.

I established that, this quote is a formality. This is stated and posted by Blizzard Entertainment, on their homepage of the Classic WoW section. Not to mention all the other sources that others have brought into it. There is nothing subjective about that, nothing about it asks for your opinion. You’re allowed to have your opinion, but you, and many others are trying to force your opinion on a formality. Blizzard never came forward and asked you and many others for your opinion on the subject. It’s been established.