The gap between M+ and Delves

[Bowdacious-dalaran]

@Snozay-area-52

@Bowdacious-dalaran

Sure.

15 gear slots.

How many weeks of delves to get your hero gear? With 1 (vault) piece, maybe 2 pieces if you get map lucky?

And no duplicates? And very few crests to upgrade?

Versus unlimited m+ content and better rewards (for the most part) in gear an crests.

There are severe restrictions/limitations from attempting to gear from delves.

That is perspective.

Still doesn’t change the fact that delves are too easy to award hero track

This is what you’re not getting.

Champ track from vault or delves difficulty needs to be increased a lot.

And what you are not getting is… do them or do not do them, who cares. If you are in a group of people that tells you you must do them, then make the choice to do them or find somewhere else to play.

Still does not change the fact you are limited in the amount of gear, and smaller crests rewards, you get per week from delves.

The rewards from delves are so inconsequential in the big picture, given the sheer RNG of obtaining more than 1 piece a week and then that piece being something you actually need.

[Snozay-area-52]

@Toshindo-shadow-council

Not sure why this needs to keep being said, but without the gilded crests, heroic IS just champion gear when it comes from delves

Then it being champion track doesn’t change anything for delvers and it not being hero track doesn’t make it forced on high end players.

[Toshindo-shadow-council]

@Snozay-area-52

Then it being champion track doesn’t change anything for delvers and it not being hero track doesn’t make it forced on high end players.

Except when the head honchos want to encourage delvers to do M+, which is most likely why they reward hero track without the crests to upgrade them.

[Snozay-area-52]

@Bowdacious-dalaran

And what you are not getting is… do them or do not do them, who cares

Most ce guilds. Which is what you aren’t getting.

@Bowdacious-dalaran

If you are in a group of people that tells you you must do them, then make the choice to do them or find somewhere else to play

Considering most guilds will have that requirement this is a absolute idiotic suggestion

@Bowdacious-dalaran

Still does not change the fact you are limited in the amount of gear, and smaller crests rewards, you get per week from delves.

As you should before choosing to limit yourself to solo content in a group based game.

[Bowdacious-dalaran]

@Snozay-area-52

@Toshindo-shadow-council

You realize that assuming one is DOING CE content is necessary to understand why a guild would force you to do it is silly, right? I don’t need to RAID at CE levels to know why they are trying to make you do it. I get it. But at the same time, wouldn’t it just be easier to grind M+? Can’t you just literally do that for forever

Ideally you would do both.

The main reason you do delves the first three weeks is to get three chances at hero track tier.

Or in some cases the candle trinket is top3 or 4 for some classes so getting a hero track early tier is good.

Same with the caster dagger from delves.

Getting more tier means more damage from new tier sets which means you go into mythic faster.

Mplus doesn’t actually convert gear into tier outside of the vault.

Example.

First vault of a new tier
I have a catalyst charge
I have a tier token
I have the aotc token.

Then I get hero track xyz from vault.

That’s fourset hero track first week.

@Toshindo-shadow-council

The point is that “requiring” delve content, and then complaining about having to do it, the entire notion is silly. At the start of the season that’s +7 or +8 to get hero drops, right? And assuming it’s a CE guild, the groups are pre-formed and using voice and all the rest. So why bother wasting time with delves anyway? For a few morsels?

As explained above. The three chances procing hero track tier from the vault.

@Toshindo-shadow-council

This is like saying if you aren’t a mechanic you don’t understand how an engine works. I might not be able to FIX one, but I can absolutely understand how it works. And doing delves for pushing gear is like putting potatoes in the tailpipe.

Are you understanding why delves awarding hero track would be required for early tier?

Delves do not get you more heroic gear (unless you get a map).

They just give you more options to pick from 1 heroic piece of gear.

You are not getting more gear.

[Snozay-area-52]

@Toshindo-shadow-council

Except when the head honchos want to encourage delvers to do M+, which is most likely why they reward hero track without the crests to upgrade them.

And most people who enjoy delves aren’t going to do mplus anyways.

[Toshindo-shadow-council]

@Bowdacious-dalaran

Delves do not get you more heroic gear (unless you get a map).

They just give you more options to pick from 1 heroic piece of gear.

You are not getting more gear.

His point is that he’s desperate for early tier gear, and more vault boxes means more potential to have one of them be tier. It’s a fair point, but it speaks to other problems with gearing, not specifically delves. I mean, a champion piece of tier gear would also suffice for the first week. Because the tier bonus is so strong.

They really should just pull tier out of the vault, honestly. But if you want to see a firestorm, say that out loud.

[Snozay-area-52]

@Bowdacious-dalaran

Delves do not get you more heroic gear (unless you get a map).

It gives you three more pieces of hero track in the vault. What part of that do you not understand?

@Bowdacious-dalaran

They just give you more options to pick from 1 heroic piece of gear.

It’s literally three more chances to proc heroic tier.

@Bowdacious-dalaran

You are not getting more gear

You clearly aren’t getting it.

[Kiyoko-ravenholdt]

As Blizzard said, rewards should correlate to difficulty. That means delves should be capping at Champion or made much, much more threatening.

[Toshindo-shadow-council]

@Snozay-area-52

And most people who enjoy delves aren’t going to do mplus anyways.

But they WANT us to. Because then more folks buy tokens, etc.

[Ragman-blackwater-raiders (Ragman)]

Gear was still higher then most were wearing, was another way to counter bad rng in other vault slots, some specs favored the stat. An lastly it boosted ilvl for that slot.

Keep moving the goal posts…

[Karrá-sisters-of-elune]

How about for gear raiders get gear like pvpers where it only works in raids. In the outside it scales to questing level gear cause why do you need that good of gear for something so easy.

[Snozay-area-52]

@Toshindo-shadow-council

They really should just pull tier out of the vault, honestly. But if you want to see a firestorm, say that out loud.

That hurts everyone though. I don’t care if delvers have access to tier. I just don’t want them awarding hero track.

[Toshindo-shadow-council]

@Snozay-area-52

That hurts everyone though. I don’t care if delvers have access to tier. I just don’t want them awarding hero track.

That’s an important question tho. What’s more important, ilvl or tier?

[Snozay-area-52]

@Karrá-sisters-of-elune

How about for gear raiders get gear like pvpers where it only works in raids. In the outside it scales to questing level gear cause why do you need that good of gear for something so easy

No. That’s a terrible idea and will never happen.

Blizz isn’t going to punish people for playing more than one content.

[Hvye-area-52]

@Toshindo-shadow-council

how it’s not fair how good that gear is from delves

No we don’t. This is a strawman argument. Nobody that’s serious in the M+ community give a flying you-know-what about Hero track gear from Delves. Knock yourself out, glad it’s there for you.

[Toshindo-shadow-council]

@Hvye-area-52

No we don’t. This is a strawman argument. Nobody that’s serious in the M+ community give a flying you-know-what about Hero track gear from Delves. Knock yourself out, glad it’s there for you.

Fair, it’s more likely the Raid scene that cares more. M+ just grinds M+.

[Snozay-area-52]

@Toshindo-shadow-council

That’s an important question tho. What’s more important, ilvl or tier?

Heroic track is more important early on that tier depending on the class.

Hero track tier has more value than normal hero track.

You wouldn’t take champion track unless it completed your fourset but most people would hold off and wait for hero track.

[Baalthazaar-khaz-modan]

I agree. Delves give great gear for those of us who prefer mostly solo content. So what, why do people whine about that? The only true answer is ego and insecurity. The whiners can’t deal with the fact someone may have close to as good of gear without doing Mythics. This despite the fact it doesn’t harm them at all. Whiners need to just get over it. Do your Mythics, get the best gear and use it to bolster your obvious insecurities. Funny thing is players who are actually good at Mythic+ don’t care as their gear quickly outranks the hero gear in delves. Based on that it’s hard to get understand what ood group does whine about good delve gear

[Hvye-area-52]

@Toshindo-shadow-council

more likely the Raid scene that cares more

I’m a CE raider and I push M+ both. Nobody in either camp care about hero track gear in delves. Not a single serious person cares. It’s useless and/or easily replaceable to both M+ and raid after 2-3 weeks.

You are counter-arguing against points that don’t legitimately exist.