It’s interesting how folks keep suggesting that if you truly want to enjoy M+ you need to stop pugging and get friends (never mind the whole git gud jabs too) yet for those that don’t want friends, and do delves instead, those same M+ folks will argue until they are blue (not just the void elves) about how it’s not fair how good that gear is from delves. And the best part is that delvers can’t even upgrade the gear they get, without diving headfirst into the dumpster fire that is M+ pugging.
This game has LONG been built around not having to form groups for everything. Sure, the TOP end gear has been based around groups, but for the adamant and eager player, that next tier down was always attainable through a bit of work. And it seems now that the one-percenters are trying to prevent the rest of us from being able to do that.
Between toxicity in M+ and multiple hour commitments for raiding, there’s simply no option for decent gear in their eyes if you aren’t a sweat-lord, or don’t have a big batch of friends to game with. The irony is that this game was founded originally on not needing a large group of friends to play it.
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I’ve not seen these arguments, can you post some examples?
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The one percenters don’t care about delves.
You are complaining about other “casuals”.
You complain about people being toxic. While being toxic.
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this is just dumb. delves are by far an outlier when it come to difficulty for the level of reward and should be brought back in line to the rest of the content. that being said i would like to see them actually make delves harder and scaling. that would be cool as it is right now they are a joke and really boring yet due to the gear disparity they are the easiest way to gear up a low level alt.
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It’s not sweaty to think gear should match the content we do. However I agree that delves should have even more built into it, that it can be harder and get even better gear if players want to play solo for great gear.
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I don’t understand why people keep comparing Delves to M+
These 2 are vastly different gameplay scenarios. They are not mutually excusive and can co-exist just fine.
Let’s not sit here and pretend that Delves are some crazy insanely hard solo content that on par with solo performance of a +15.
I got no friends that play WoW. Just a few classic guildies that I play with, but I pug 90% of my keys, I still enjoy it nonetheless. I actually love M+ on its own.
Delve gear is capped at like M+8
who cares? only some salty half untimed +7’s cringy greasy hair tryhards are mad about it.
Delves is the brand new gearing avenue for most solo/casual players to the levels never seen before. Before, most solo players would cap out at LFR and now they can get to 620+ ilvl and become OP.
I don’t do M+ to be OP in Delves. I do M+ to feel OP in M+
Same should go for delvers - play delves to feel OP in delves.
laughs in 40 man raids
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Yes you always have been able to get decent rewards as a solo player, but they were more often very limited. I think there’s some tuning to delve rewards in term of quantity (as I think quality is fine) that could be done but season 2 will play differently so probably will have to see how it works as this season was a lot different with renown giving you many keys and being able to farm keys before M+ released.
yeah that’s definitely a thing that happens, a lot, all the time
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The gear level that Delves give is good and the only thing I would change is giving more crest for people that complete them on 11. I don’t get how Heroic gear is not decent gear? If you are only doing Delves, low level M+ and world content Heroic gear is great it is beyond decent.
Why is any gear below Mythic being treated like it is trash?
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Delves should drop max-level crests at their highest tier because solo players deserve meaningful progression. WoW has always offered ways to improve gear without relying on large group content, and Delves are a natural continuation of that. Letting solo players earn crests doesn’t threaten Mythic+ or raids; it simply rewards those who put in the effort to master Delves. Denying crest upgrades only creates an unnecessary barrier, punishing players who prefer solo play without adding anything of value to the game.
People shouldnt be forced to PvP for PvE progression and thats basically what M+ has become.
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I think delves should be slightly harder and maybe have the best rewards come from a 9 instead of an 8, but otherwise they should leave them largely unchanged. I don’t mind there being a couple of tiers that are just there for the challenge and that don’t give any rewards.
I just came back after legion so I’m a bit skeptical joining raid groups, a lot has changed with people, my toon plays the exact same, the people are very different. Theres always been a class divide just like the real world (except inflation, inflation hit Azeroth with a cataclysmic force, was shocked at the sticker price of a repair). I’m stuck at 609 with no path to get higher gear (mm hunter 14yrs I’m not changing) unless I join some elite group who will carry me (guilds are dead it takes days to find a guild with a single person logged on). So no raiding just old content bc I don’t like the feel of the cave that khaz is so i avoid it.
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They have meaningful progression now
Forcing Delve players into Mythic+ to progress instead of Raiding pushes them into an environment that feels more like toxic PvP than cooperative PvE. Mythic+ pugging has become notorious for its timer-driven pressure, blame culture, and general hostility, which many players find exhausting and unfun. Most WoW players don’t enjoy PvP for exactly those reasons—it’s competitive, stressful, and unforgiving.
Raids and Delves, on the other hand, offer a much better pugging experience. Raids are slower-paced, with clear roles and room to recover from mistakes, while Delves allow solo players to focus on their own progress without external pressure. If you force players into Mythic+ to upgrade their gear, they’re being funneled into an environment they actively want to avoid. Instead of pushing players into toxic group content, WoW should support healthier, more enjoyable alternatives like Delves and Raids, giving players a choice in how they progress.
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I mean coming from another hunter who just happens to be BM I have to take this with a grain of salt.
Delves are super easy as BM tbh. I was shocked at how easy tier 11 is when you can just throw everything onto your pet and have full uptime while moving. oh and worst case turtle and res the pet, MD/FD and you are good to go.
I gotta be honest it’s about 100x easier than high end M+. I prefer the solo playstyle but it is surprising to me you can get such good gear out of it.
I didn’t say anything about this.
Did you reply to the wrong person?
Just acknowleding reality to formulate a response.
The game in its early years was build solely on group content
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Are you saying right now that the gear delvers get is meaningless?
Right now M+ is forced on raiders and delvers due to crest aquisition if you read my original comment. M+ was designed as an alternative and currently it is not.
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