That does not answer my question.
Right now
The gear delvers get.
Is it meaningless?
Gear that requires a group and coordination should always be more rewarding than solo stuff.
Especially when solo stuff is considerably easier.
Can get full hero gear just doing delves.
Then mostly or full mythic gear with the first few mythic bosses (puggable) and 10 keys (which don’t have to be timed). Like, you can blow up 4 dawns/mists at 10 for 1-2 639 pieces from your weekly boxo.
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Delve gear isn’t meaningless, but it’s really only good as a starter endgame set. It gives players a solid foothold, but progression naturally hits a wall, forcing them into Mythic+ if they want to upgrade. This is where the problem starts. Mythic+ pugging often feels more like toxic PvP than cooperative PvE—timers, blame, and frustration replace teamwork and fun.
For a game built on cooperative play, this design feels counterintuitive. PvE content like Delves and Raids should offer smoother, more inclusive paths for gear progression without shoving players into a high-pressure, toxic environment they don’t enjoy. Delve players shouldn’t be punished for preferring solo or low-pressure gameplay—they should have a natural, meaningful way to progress their gear without being funneled into a system that undermines the cooperative spirit WoW was founded on. Heroic raids should give more gilded and so should t11.
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…From the very beginning (Vanilla), pretty much all gear progression was tied to grouping for something. It had only been extremely recently that playing solo got you any actually decent gear.
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They spent 20 years designing the game around not having to even talk to other players.
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Newsflash, you can get full hero gear doing weekly quests over time. And those delvers aren’t maxing out that hero gear they get from delves, not without doing M+, where they are then getting equivalent gear anyway.
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Cool
So they have a form of meaningful progression. But they may hit a wall.
Walls are ok.
But ultimately they have meaningful progression.
Give delves more crest and they will still hit a wall forcing them into m+ for additional progression. So your solution does not fix the problem you outline. Just moves it.
Incorrect. Added more gilded to heroic raiding/t11 delves 100% fixes this forced problem.
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Idk if it’s clear but people are meant to move on from their current content if they want more stuffs.
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Thats the point. Weve spent 15 years moving away from being forced to PvP for PvE gear just to going straight back to it with M+. Its an easy fix. You dont even have to touch M+ and let its enjoyers enjoy it. You just gotta buff raids and your expansion flagship content.
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You are saying no upgrades exist outside of heroic gear?
Where did I say that? Lmao.
You mean before MC? What comparison are you making here? The vanilla equivalent to delves was to just do random world content quests and lvling alts. Anything that gave you actual gear required a group just like it does now, and raiding required for more people. I really don’t understand what point you’re trying to make because it sounds like you’re comparing current retail versus an imaginary version of vanilla that only exists in your head.
No one is saying delve gear is too good, that was a very old point made about how doing easymode content (delve) was unreaonably more profitable than the lvl of difficulty needed in M+ to get the same gear. Beyond this very low level point, delve gear is useless.
This game has LONG been built around not having to form groups for everything. Sure, the TOP end gear has been based around groups, but for the adamant and eager player, that next tier down was always attainable through a bit of work.
Could not be more wrong. The game went through many iteration, several of them not allowing solo players to get end game gear. And quite frankly, why would doing less reward you just as much? If you don’t work as hard, you shouldn’t be rewarded the same. This is called entitlement and you need to stop right now.
You do not deserve what you want.
Hmmm?
Oh, this is about people who only wanna raidlog 
You said I was incorrect. That means there is no way to progress once you max heroic gear.
Youre forced into M+ because you can only get 2 upgrades of gilded a week doing raid. 3-4 If youre really really pumping t8 delves.
Pays the same $15/mo, doesn’t deserve stuff. I understand the point you are “trying” to make here, with respect to effort and reward, but dang, what a horrible way to try to put it. I can feel the ‘sneer’. lol.
And you are forced into m+/raiding if you want to progress past heroic gear.
Same problem.
The problem is M+. People dont want to run it and really dislike its community compared to Delves and raidlogging. Its the same issue as forcing people to PvP for raid gear back in the day.
Cant go anywhere on the MMORPG interwebs without running into M+ toxicity talks.
Where are the whiners about delve gear being too powerful??
The closest thing to that en masse I’ve seen is the same comment I’ve made: the power of delve gear gives players a false sense of performance and competency.
This doesn’t mean the gear itself is too powerful, it’s what some players THINK they can do easily BECAUSE of their gear.
If you have all gear from +8 delves, and you try a +8 Mythic with no experience whatsoever, there’s a good chance you’ll get stomped. That’s just because keys have more to worry about including teamwork which delves simply don’t have.
It’s not a jab at delvers. It’s a jab at people who think x level of gear necessarily means they will succeed at the corresponding gear level of keys, which it doesn’t.
I too thought that after getting full delve gear 600+ that I could just hop into a +7 no issue. I was super wrong. So I started from +2s and it was much smoother. Didn’t take long to get to 7s and 8s.