uh that’s exactly what’s happening though no?
Both the horde and Sylvanas are getting off scot free.
Also I like how this whole thread was originally just a bad troll attempt and people are still discussing its legitimacy.
TBH, I think everyone should be at least a little nervous about speaking up about their favorite race. Every time enough people complain about not getting enough screen time, here comes Bliz with some cockamamie story to give story time to said race.
With story development like this, who needs enemies.
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It is interesting reading a thread backwards, seeing my name come up, and having the context reveal itself. I thought I would look and see what brought me up.
I see. There is discussion about Horde posters that are fine with the Burning of Teldrassil and who also make jokes about it? Sure. That’s me.
I supported the burning on many levels. As a lore point, as a biased Faction moment of cheer, as a policy for the Horde in times of war, and as a gameplay choice - I always felt we had too many major cities and should lose a few. I could go on… but these topics can seem a bit old hat. Suffice it to say, color me guilty as charged.
I do not take the lore too seriously. If I get into a silly forum argument with a Night Elf, I might mock the Burning of Teldrassil. Or if I get in an argument with a Space Goat, I might mention the Path of Glory. And because I am posting on a Blood Elf, they might mention the destruction and death Arthas brought to Quelthalas, or Jaina and her purge. If I were a Vulpera, they might make jokes about burning my caravan.(which means as much to a Vulpera as your tree did to you!)
Its just silly and I do not take it seriously.
The same could be said about Saurfang. He tells Sylvanas , to paraphrase, that “all of them will come.”
He seems to react to Teldrassil like a partner in a robbery that turned into a murder.
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Good to see that I wasn’t off in my assessment. I didn’t want to definitively speak for other people.
So you did. But anyway, I think “supporting the burning” is too simple a way to describe Darrethy’s take on the whole thing. Darrethy didn’t support it simply as a piece of anti-Alliance aggression, but saw all kinds of nuances in the story that I don’t really think the writing supported.
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You could see the attempts to make a better than normal story though. That much was clear. Well, Horde-side at least. The Alliance story was just the usual “fall back as we lose to the horde” story starring night elf victimization.
It was acceptable only because the Allies won the war. The Alliance also never partook is anything morally greyer than minor saboteur work, because muh moral high ground.
If we’d lost the war, we’d all have been prosecuted as war criminals.
Curtis Lemay.
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They where ahead of the horde so yeah the whole point of a good war and elegy is that the winning move was not to play
I said it somewhere else, since we (unfortunately) discuss IRL war crimes more often than we should here, but the truth of it is that the winners decide what a war crime is.
I mean I see multiple people saying this and I don’t get the point of it?
Yes, we all know victors write the history, the people whom hold power get to decide the law… but so what? So we have no morals or principles beyond what is simply legal or illegal at a given time? It’s okay to say the Allies committed war crimes during WW2 because they still did, regardless of whether they got prosecuted or not.
If a murderer murders someone, and for whatever reason the system never gives them jail time, never sentences them, that does not make the mans act any less of a murder. It just means he got away with it.
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Reason why it is his-story and not her-story, except in the case of Sylvanas…
The point of it is that the winners focus on the crimes of the defeated and brush their own questionable acts under the rug, or at the very least don’t look very critically at their own actions until much later. You are also conflating a normal legal issue such as murder, for which there is a legal statute defining both the act and its punishment in every jurisdiction on the planet, and the issue of “war crimes” which have a tendency to be made up by the aforementioned victors as they go along.
It applies in this sense to the fact that questionable Alliance acts have gotten this whitewash treatment and the narrative focuses heavily on Horde acts.
I expect you’ll go to bat for the Alliance side and Trivelfrank will pop up shortly.
I mean what about slavery, then? Something which has been legal, but I don’t really care. It is still a crime to me, regardless of its historical place. I am comparing actions. Murder is murder, slavery is slavery, despite the legality of what is going on. The same holds, to me, for things we typical in our modern senses understand as “war crimes”, such as deliberate malicious targeting of large civilian populations.
Like okay, but what do you believe? Do you believe specifically fire bombing, or nuclear incineration, of hundreds of thousands if not millions of men, women, and children who are not involved in combat, is a just act?
They haven’t really gotten a white wash treatment, it’s that they are never even written. The things which are “questionable” are always written to be very small, and pale in comparison to the Horde side. It’s not a matter of actual events being white washed, it’s a matter of fiction being written.
Lmao. I never brought faction into it? But I suppose the WoW players mind is so polluted, so poisoned, by the product they consume they can not divorce themselves for even one lone interaction from the “faction” they have grown psychologically attached to.
Are you salivating for him to, honey? Either way I doubt it. Haven’t heard from him today.
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Your post is far too fragmented and jumps around crazily. Pick one point and we’ll discuss.
You can pick whatever I said and respond to it. If it jumps around too much for you, apologies. My main concern was still there via the issue of waving away the entire concept of “war crimes” simply because the victors tend to decide what happens at the end of a war.
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We can go from here.
It’s not an issue of ‘waving away’ war crimes because the things that were done were not in any way supportable. The argument comes not that the things which are tagged as “war crimes” should be overlooked, but that using them to browbeat the entire other side into some kind of narrative submission is often hypocritical, because the winners overlook their own questionable acts.
To clarify I’m not referring to BfA here, because no such Alliance acts were committed. We’ve had to dig deep to show any kind of grey at all on Team Blue’s side, and the narrative (Blizzard) gives us no support. I’m talking about other events further back in WoW history.
Gilneas is Schrodinger’s Zone.
From what I understand the initial plan was to make the Battle for Gilness a big, urban warfare ebg. Unfortunately the concept proved unsalvageable after play testing so we got the AB alike instead.
So I guess canonically the Lighthouse, Mines and Waterworks of Gilneas are just constantly being fought over.
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Well thanks for the clarity. That’s all I was asking for really.
As for the blue side, sure further back you can find “morally grey” things. I for one still like to look at the blatant disregard for the trolls in the lore… the humans/high elves/dwarves etc are ultimately responsible for genocide and displacement of multiple tribes, as an example, but it is never discussed as such. It is even painted as some sort of necessity because the trolls were aggressive and evil.
Ultimately I think there should be less trying to create justifications within the fiction for what they write the Horde to do, such as in BfA people trying to justify the War of Thorns or Teldrassil or whatever, and more just asking why they consistently push this troubling narrative, and examining the messaging of it.
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Some people, like me, have grown tired of it and just become salty and caustic in most things involving lore.
Did you play the Horde side, and if so, could you give me some examples? Like I said, I didn’t play it, so I’m curious.
I actually did play the Alliance side on my Alliance toon. There was a lot of retreating, true, but I remember there being some satisfying mini-obectives along the way. And I quite liked Delaryn when she was alive. I wish she could have survived and led the counter-offensive.
You have a short memory. Go back and read the old threads from August 2018. You’ll find lots and lots of posts by Horde players who are upset about the WoT and sympathetic to Night Elf players.
A lot of them where not nooooo not the poor nelves but noooo we are the baddies again.
I find it hard to care when the war was ok all the way up to the warbringer as I’d someone else burned it negates the fact they they caused the event that would lead up to the burning lol