to be fair
do we have any evidence of any denzien of the Shadowlands self referring to it as the Shadowlands yet?
seems like it’s a word we impose, not one they identify as
we know the shadowlands predated even the titans. It is a realm of existence that has always existed, not created. We also know the shadowlands was ‘ordered’ by a pantheon similar to how the titans ordered the material plane. I think this pantheon must have been “the first ones”. Maybe the first Val’kyr or something. Oribos looks nothing like a titan facility, it is more looks like a monument of some kind, almost like a spire/throne where the different pockets of the shadowlands probably orbit around or something. We will find out eventually.
yes, even in the RPG and stuff. The Eternals have always been the gods/higher powered beings in wow. Like Azshara’s even referred to as The Eternal multiple times in 8.2
I’m betting they are either the first dead of the universe (which could have come from any planet) or the first group that formed in the Shadowlands (much like how the Naaru and Titans formed in the Greater Dark, and demons in the Nether, from latent energy).
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Here’s some post from Moon:
Here is another interesting quote from the denizens of Oribos, the myriad of creatures could be either the other denizens of the Shadowlands or, and more likely in my opinion, the plethora of mortal races that just started to come to this place.
If we accept the latter option as true, it means that either the population of oribos is persuaded that the first ones are also responsible for the living world or that the Titans (who are the origine of most life in the main world) are named the First ones by them.
Now it remains to be seen if the Progenitor and the First ones are also one and the same.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/429476017653153802/713341232121905252/image0.png
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Man
The potentiality of Blizzard going “here’s a never-hinted-at before group of creator gods who are the TRUE creator gods, forget the titans!” reminds me way too much of the Void Lords with “here’s a never-hinted-at before ancient evil who is the TRUE ancient evil, forget the Burning Legion!”.
Not a fan, hope I’m wrong about what these Progenitors are.
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First Ones might just be a name for the Titans, like the Klaxxi call them “usurpers”.
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What is the other option? We’ve burned through the vast majority of the antagonists established by earlier games. The Legion is 0-3 against Azeroth and just not that scary. The old gods are dead. The focus on faction war was a cluster from the player perspective. Should we return to raiding murloc camps?
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The problem isn’t making new stuff, it’s making new stuff that shoves aside an old thing and goes “This is a better version of that! The old one was actually not a big deal at all!”
No one minded when they invented Lei Shen for example - he was excellent, in fact - but people mind when they say screw the established cosmogony we’re gonna make a cosmic force to fulfill the exact same role as this already existing one and make the existing one irrelevant. It feels very cheap.
But like I said, we don’t actually know that’s what these Progenitors are and I hope I’m wrong about it.
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Eh. I guess your point about the Progenitors is taken, but Lei Shen was just a tier 2 bad guy who didn’t need to serve a role in the worldbuilding. The story is out of bad guys that can push expansions or even multiple expansions.
Lei Shen did serve a role in worldbuilding.
The Zandalari, the Mogu Empire, the Thunder Isle. All the magic, dark secrets, and monstrous abominations. The role that Lei Shen plays is important to Pandaria’s world.
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Couple more bits, I am really getting the feel these First Ones aka Progenitors were likely the architects of a lot more than just the shadowlands, and may of built the framework of the overall universe.
Just a thought but if you have Void lords, and perhaps a counterpart ‘Light Lord’… then perhaps these First Ones or Progenitors were the ones in the middle. That place them as creatures with WAY more power than a titan who would of been around since the universe came into being.
Again makes me ponder Elune could be one of these, as it helps explain why she would of been around to make the Prime Naaru.
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Thats not the point. The point is Lei Shen was a well integrated new character who was woven perfectly into the fabric of the existing lore. His existence didn’t really displace anything. The counterpoint of this is the Old Gods, who originally were this mysterious, unfathomable force beyond our comprehension, but are now just tumors slapped on the planet by the real dark evil spooky force in the universe.
Of course they were doomed from the get-go because quite often when something is fleshed out and overtly explained it loses its lustre, especially when a big part of the original appeal was the mysteriousness of it.
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Oh yeah no, I agree with that sentiment. At least the first half talking about how Lei Shen is a good example of being a well integrated “new threat” that doesn’t actively harm the overall story.
It’s kind’ve the reason why I think people who prattle on about the devs “running out of antagonists” are full of ogre-dung. A better explanation for that is that Warcraft is literally filled with antagonists that keep coming back for more. It’s literally impossible to get rid of them all in the way people seem to suggest, especially with how Blizzard likes to write things.
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The way I see it the issue is more that nearly every single lore character seems to need to be turned into a raid boss, and Blizzard is running out of old characters to do that to.
That was never not a thing they did though.
Yet they find a way to keep doing it, so unless it becomes overtly detrimental it’s probably fine.
I know it was always a thing. And people were pointing out it could lead to issues as far back as Wrath. And detrimental is subjective, there are a lot of people who would argue it has become overtly detrimental.
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Characters calling themselves the First Ones has happened in Starcraft(I’m talking about the Protoss) as well yet in that case they weren’t even close to being the first beings in existence!
100% Elune is a First One/Progenitor, calling it now
Probably one Progenitor per Cosmic Force, or maybe there’s two or three and they each group up 2 or 3 cosmic forces (e.g. Elune would be Life and Light, X would be maybe Shadow and Death, Y would be Order and Disorder)
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I agree and also believe the natural progression is to introduce being that equal the void lords in power for other fundamental forces of the universe and elune may very well be one. Probably Life.
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