Dw, it can be done in a way that is completely tone deaf yet absolves the Alliance of all guilt. Like they threaten Orgrimmar or Silvermoon with a Void WMD because Horde refuse to leave Ashenvale or Arathi or something but they cannot control it and it goes off and sends one of those cities into the void with most of its citizens , “Ooops, our bad. Ok can we have peace now?”
It is weird because at this rate, those people could just play Horde instead.
3 Likes
I think people can be naturally vindictive. I know I am. If I feel wronged in some way, I often make a point to go for the throat. It doesn’t come from any place of insecurity either, it’s just my own personal knee jerk response to attack. I think that frame of mind is more common than people realize.
How often do we see debate devolve into tit-for-tat comparison of victimhood? I think that observation does a lot to prove my point. Conflict between people, such as war, can very easily become a contest of who can be the most monstrous.
Boiling down a nuanced subject like war to it’s bare elements, I think it can be said, generally, the one more willing to shelf their moral virtues in the pursuit of victory is the one who will have a significant edge. And the Alliance is in a position to justify it. Fresh after the War of Thorns, no one would blame the Alliance for having a monstrous response. We can say such a response is wrong… but I don’t think anyone could say they don’t understand why that is the response they had.
I understand. I want to see the Horde (As an in-universe faction, not the player base) suffer immensely for what they did. I don’t isolate blame to just Sylvanas. The Burning of Teldrassil was just as much Saurfang’s doing as it was hers. Even before the genocide, the act of invasion is enough to evoke my wrath. Because he was in-favor of the invasion, I wanted to see Saurfang blood eagled and strung up high in a tree. And I know these things are not humane, this is not a morally just thing to desire.
Thing is, I am too hurt to care. War itself is void of morality, and war is a contest of wills. It is a contest few want to participate in, but once the game begins, the consequence of losing is death. And my will to win that game, my will to live, far outweighs the will of my opponent… At least, that is the mindset of those in that situation.
The thing is, it’s not the fault of the Horde player base. So that rage and that lust for vengeance cannot be satiated because doing so punishes a player base for something they didn’t ask for. It’s really the reason why a faction conflict story presented in this way was a really bad idea. Satisfaction on both sides is impossible.
Worse, the player bases have reason to envy one another. The Horde got to brutalize the Alliance… It’s not what they wanted, but because of it, it’s what the Alliance now wants in turn. The Alliance gets to have the moral highground in the story, which after years of being villain batted, is something Horde players seem to desperately want. They are tired of being the bad guys.
So it’s almost as if BFA was designed to leave people feeling unfulfilled. Blizzard successfully told a story that is objectively disappointing on every single front. It is a failure so grand that I struggle to understand how it’s not intentional.
11 Likes
Why would killing Horde make you a monster?
3 Likes
I’m replying to Ikaar saying they want to see the Alliance destroy a Horde city and commit genocide. I do not want that. Killing soldiers, sure. Killing innocents and non-combatants in a “they did it to us first” bloodthirsty revenge sort of thing is a hard pass for me. I do not want the Alliance to slaughter a city full of innocents for no other reason than that the Horde did it first. That isn’t “morally grey,” that’s an unqualified evil. I don’t play evil.
5 Likes
The problem is you think there are innocents among the Horde.
Are there innocent demons or voidlings? I dont think so.
3 Likes
No thank you.
I don’t want Horde players to have to feel what I felt doing the pre-xpac quests when the writing team did a very good job of making me feel sick and sad and broken-hearted and then followed it up with NOTHING. No denouement, no quest where we got revenge, nothing about the kaldorei people gathering their citizens and girding for war, nothing nothing nothing nothing until our High Priestess became the literal avatar of the Night Warrior and-- and-- and-- killed some minion groups and an adversary while the boss fight bailed with the other adversary and two of our beloved heroes who turned against us so we get to kill them in the warfront instead of anyone actually responsible for the atrocity in the first place.
IT IS NOT FUN.
And I don’t wish that on the Horde players.
I want the Kaldorei people to retake their homelands in game on sceen in a meaningful and persistent way, not a forever-warfront ping-ponging back and forth between the factions. But I am not in this game to be the bad guy, and I’m not someone who thinks revenge against the Horde means revenge against the players.
We’re all here to have fun. Giving Horde players the kind of sads I had won’t make me less sad, it’ll make me sad for them and I’m getting pretty sick of having the sads.
23 Likes
Is this a serious opinion or hyperbole for the funny? I can’t tell anymore.
If it’s hyperbole, hahahahahasnortlaughhaha…ha…hhh…lolsob
If it’s serious, then we have a fundamental difference in how we view the…the everything, probably, but the lore and game world at least, and I believe it’ll make any conversation we have about the faction conflict an exercise in futility. Even my night elves know there are innocents in the Horde and ICly do not want to harm them. So…bye, I guess.
12 Likes
I have never seen a Horde innocent.
If you manage to find one please point them out.
1 Like
Is this IC? Are we RPing right now?
The children. The tailoring trainer. The orphans. The orphanage matrons. The druids of the Cenarion Circle who have remained neutral and are working with night elves to heal the Wound. The farmers who are just trying to make a living for themselves and their families. The goblin who ICly saved Tyrnathera’s life. His IC little girl. The goblin SI:7 operative – I mean he’s not innocent but he’s on our side.
I… are we RPing now?
13 Likes
No I am not RPing I legitimately believe all Horde races are so morally corrupt and unlike humanity that the definition of “innocent” fails to describe them at any level.
And that judgement is made on the past lore and current lore.
They are a chaotic self interested collection of races at best.
I see Horde as nothing more than Burning Legion lite.
1 Like
We’re not. This poster at best is under the delusion they are playing World of Warhammer or at worst…has read the Turner Diaries one too many times. It hasn’t escaped my notice that the majority of Horde races are based on non-white cultures. Coincidence that the entire Horde is worthy of only complete annihilation?
16 Likes
Certain races like Forsaken, Orcs and Goblins? Most certainly.
Notice how the poster back tracks and now only says certain Horde races are worthy of extermination? This is an attempt to seem slightly more reasonable.Their original stance hasn’t changed so don’t let yourself be fooled.
14 Likes
Yes certain Horde races need to be exterminated because similar to demons they are a blight. They are a risk to let them keep living. See the races I mentioned.
As for morality of killing them (all Horde) there is nothing wrong with it.
The poster also ignores all established lore that depicts said races as people with unique cultures and history. The developers of the game even state none of the playable races are evil. However when one is living out their fantasy of killing the nonwhites there is a lot to ignore.
12 Likes
well… the horde has proven themself… not ideal for living.
they don’t deserve to live.
i would only spare the taurens because they don’t tend to go genocidal maniacs all of the sudden.
but even they were tainted by helping the genocidal maniacs so it doesn’t seem like they can be free of guilt.
1 Like
I remember when the poster converted you to their delusion. I was disappointed but figured they’d get at least one.
7 Likes
First off I am not white.
So… lol.
Secondly Orcs have a history of committing massacre after massacre.
Their whole society is based on killing and pillaging.
Forsaken are unrepentantly evil and this expansion we saw it in full display.
Goblins are just pests that generally destroy the world like a plague.
So yeah they deserve to be culled as for the other races they are no so evil as to warrant extermination but evil enough that there is nothing wrong in killing them.
As for what the Devs say over on twitter.
Lol.
…what?.
i mean. pheandra can be a little stubborn but she does kinda have a point that the horde is not longer a faction that should continue to exist.
is like n azis in ww2 but in this case they keep existing as organization and their leaders aren’t facing any consequences for it.