The faction imbalance is going to strangle this game

When they say imbalance, they mean hardcore players - total players are about even on both sides (like 45/55 at worst). The problem is when you look at anyone above 1800 ranked PvP or Mythic Raiding In PvE - you see about 4x more Horde players. You also see about 8x more Horde players at the highest levels of PvE.

Because the high end scene on Alliance is so dead, the players who want to participate basically have 3 logical options:

1.) Go Horde.
2.) Stop trying to do high end content.
3.) Stop playing WoW.

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As long as changing factions has a monetary cost associated with it, there will always be a disparity. As you say, players of similar types tend to congregate. If the best realm for PvP is Tich-Horde, then PvP will tend to pool there.

I doubt they will lower the price as it’s likely a rather lucrative cash cow that pretty much costs them $0 to manage.

It’s not even nearly like that pity party

8x? That’s not true

Play ally and see literally no difference in que times or people doing mythic plus

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https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/1536256603
This is from 2010. People have been saying faction imbalance would kill this game since the second month of it existing. It’s not killing the game.

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I’m talking about Mythic raiding.

BTW: Post on your main - curious if you’re actually a high end Alliance player or just another Horde player telling me how good Alliance has it.

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You are wrong.

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Neither did I?
The problem is not from population its from content. Horde had a seven year head start with high end guilds all going and staying Horde for the racials which have only really been fixed recently making it too late to really have them come back, causing a massive shift in the player base.

But you dont want to hear that do you?
Alliance R dumb, Horde guud!!!11one :eggplant::eggplant::weary::weary::weary::pray::100::100::100:

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This why we farm alliance on patch days & events like the new chromie one for the mount. We really show no mercy lol

I don’t care you want to look at my achieves

The faction divide is such an utterly core attribute of the franchise DNA that it would be bizarre and an admission of incredible, incredible incompetence for them to have to scrap that.

If the faction imbalance gets worse… and worse… and worse… they’ll start resorting to stronger measures. The only exception they’ve made was with unrated PvP (mercenary mode), because participation in that content REQUIRES more of a balance, since the factions queue against each other. Even then, that’s such a minor area, with an exceptional situation (queue times based on numbers queuing against each other), and a more general notion of “Horde can contact and group with Alliance to take on raids and dungeons” would utterly break the basic mold of the faction divide.

It is of course true that the faction balance is bad, and people feel compelled to switch to Horde. I’m surprised how little acknowledgment there is that while there’s always been a slight trend to Horde, the years since MoP ended significantly aggravated the situation and forced many players, who otherwise would not have been willing to switch, to feel compelled to switch. Sure, you hear about Mythic+ being imbalanced right now, but the high-end goals and performance of this game has always principally been driven by raiding.

And what happened to raiding at the end of MoP? Blizzard changed it so that the highest difficulty, with the highest rewards, would require 20 people. While using flexible size for the other modes, Blizzard was not willing to do that for Mythic difficulty. And that 20-man size has had a massive impact on player migration ever since.

Maintaining a roster capable of fielding 20 mythic-capable players is not easy, and less and less easy the smaller your recruitment pool is. You might think it’s just “twice as hard” as maintaining a 10-man roster, but after experiencing both the before and after years, I’d say it’s more exponential than that. I would see guilds where a 10-man roster could often last without any real need for “management” or any drive for recruitment for one year, two years, sometimes even longer. A 20-man roster requires almost constant management and recruitment efforts.

Alliance guilds were in a harder position than Horde guilds on most servers. Guilds that beat heroic, but fell below the 20-man size couldn’t even raid mythic. Many guilds might have 15-18 people, and have to PUG the last couple slots. Oh… except of course, mythic was server locked (and still is even today until the Hall of Fames get filled, which takes months), so they’d have to find PUGs specifically on their server. That tiny pool often meant cutting standards and taking people not quite up to task.

This also plays out for any Horde guild on a dying server. Alliance have it bad more places than Horde have it bad, but Horde on any medium or low pop realm, and even some realms deceptively classified as “high pop” (but with low raiding populations) are often put in the position of needing to transfer to the mega-pop servers.

You want to talk about a trickle-down effect - the 20-man fixed size for mythic raiding has probably the biggest trickle-down effect in the game. The highest end players flock to where they can be sure they’ll hit that magic number. Their somewhat less hardcore friends follow suit, because the most active players tend to draw the slightly less active players to them.

Even people who don’t have ambitions of clearing mythic raids prefer to be in active guilds where high end content will at least be an option if they do someday want to make that into a goal. A raiding guild that could clear heroic with flexible size, but can’t get the numbers needed for mythic size, is doomed to less and less activity typically. There’s some exceptions, but they are just that - exceptions.

How do you get people to go back to the Alliance? It would take many rewards, but the OP is right, no achievement or storyline or allied race or racial will fix the problem. But part of the reasons those incentives don’t work is because even if people WANTED to make use of those, the numerical barrier to participation in the highest PvE content with the highest rewards is prohibitive and makes jumping to the Alliance look foolish.

If Blizzard wants to treat the problem, the first thing they need to do is treat the thing that’s causing the most bleeding. Stop the bleeding before anything else, because anything else without that will be totally insufficient. And if Blizzard wants to stop the bleeding, they need to address the elephant in the room - The fixed 20-man size for mythic. It’s the single biggest driving force in high end raiding guild collapses, faction transfers, and realm transfers. And that fixed 20-man size, unlike the faction divide, is NOT intrinsic to the DNA of the franchise.

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As someone who plays both and blue, I can confirm there is a real imbalance between Horde and Alliance. That fact should not be in question, it’s a fact. Many of the lifelong Alliance players who were higher level “serious” players have defected to Horde. Not all, but a significant number.

I agree the faction imbalance will eventually strangle the two-party system we have now. Mixing factions will result in a lot of diehard players leaving (or threatening to leave). For the record, I would love cross faction groups and/or guilds. It would alleviate a lot of issues if implemented correctly.

IMO, the only way to lure players back to Alliance is to make them interesting. I don’t mean offering a fuzzy flying black & yellow horse with a pointy butt, I mean interesting. Make Anduin act like the man he was raised to be. Put Greymane in the morally gray situation of choosing Anduin or the Nelves. Have a civil war in the Alliance where for once, the Horde are the foil to the Alliance driven plot. As a guy who mains Horde, I’m totally ok with this.

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I am okay with this. I am tired of all the story attention we have been getting from Blizzard and playing musical leaders.

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If someone comes in here and says:

“Oh look at X server they are 50/50”

Server individuality is dead outside of mythic raiding. Party sync and CRZ effectively eliminated servers unless you are specifically looking for mythic raiding groups before it opens cross-realm, in which case you are already horde because you are interested in mythic raiding.

Ion Hazzikostas promised that RP servers would be protected from this in BfA, but of course, that was just a complete lie and now RP servers are forever sharded in any new zones from BfA onward.

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  1. literally no one who is talking about a faction imbalance cares about queued content
  2. Stop lying. The m+ scene is far more active hordeside.
  3. raiding, specifically mythic raiding, is also hugely imbalanced towards the horde, and that only increases as more players and guilds swap to horde to follow either the raiders or the raiding opportunities.
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If so, that certainly doesn’t show it. That’s from early Cataclysm, which is the beginning of the subscriber decline. Also, the expansions that have contributed the most to that decline are the ones most focused on Horde: Cataclysm, Warlords and BfA.

The game tends to recover in the more balanced or somewhat Alliance-centric expansions, like Legion.

It’s almost like the decision to push one faction over the other, and not the one that most people want to play, wasn’t the greatest idea.

But there’s no way to be sure.

Of course, yes, the game could have had the opposite problem, and balancing the factions in TBC probably helped pushed the game to its high point. But that would simply confirm the above, that having balanced factions is better.

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Its all going to be moot without blizzard providing a faction breakdown of active accounts that separates characters alts from accounts and shows which side their primary end game toons are doing, and which alts are being used for casual stuff/AH play/storage and or gathering. As it stands people use 3rd party pages that only gather information from AH hits, they do not provide any factual information outside of level and that.

The breakdown of leaderboard achievements and top 100 is literally the only thing we have to go on, and that is only segment of the population.

Is this an issue? Let people play the faction they choose(why not both?) and take the pros/cons that come with it.

Stop looking to Blizz to fix this issue. Look in the mirror. You have such a cute mog :heart_eyes:. I’m sure you have lots of mounts and fuzzy pets. Obviously you don’t care about M+ or raids.

So tell us… why? YOU have the answer to this problem, because you are the “problem”. Why don’t you push harder content? How can Blizzard force you to suddenly change the way you enjoy this game?

I am GM and principal recruiter of an alliance side mythic raiding guild, am 6/8 mythic, with a za’qul kill potentially this week, 3 CEs recently, 2.1k io, and darn straight I have an amazing pet collection.

I know far more about how the mythic raiding faction imbalance affects the alliance side of the mythic raiding game than you do.

And, frankly, it’s dim. Recruiting mythic raiders alliance side is far harder than it ever has been.

Blizz is the only one who can fix the issue.

The only thing i can do, and the thing the raid will likely have to do for longterm health of the raid, is go horde. Because if the recruiting trend continues as it has been, it won’t be long before there is next to 0 mythic raiding going on alliance side.

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I’ve been playing since launch, people whined about it back then too. Early on, horde were dramatically outnumbered, it’s why I went horde initially. I like being the underdog. I had no idea it’d end up meaning fast Q’s etc. I just stuck with it through the years until recently, I decided to give Alliance a shot in classic and I’ve started leveling alliance toons in OG wow as well.

The faction imbalance DOES create issues, but the only fix is to intelligently merge servers to balance populations, this will cause an absolute nightmare for peoples names, guild names, etc.

One of the biggest problems with OG WoW imo, is the cross server crap. I totally understand why it exists and it ‘is’ a solution, but it is the wrong one imo. They should take the bullet and merge servers to get balanced servers where we can have an actual community again instead of constantly seeing new random people who know theres little to no chance of running into you again so theres no consequence or “reputation hit” for acting like a poo poo head.

Ultimately, population imbalance isn’t hurting anything except the forums though. Phaseing and mass X server tech is hurting the game more.