lol righto
I mean… unless you count Genn Geymane. He’s reforming, but he’s still “present day Gilneans” as well as old Gilneans.
Not to pile on, but Paul was Judean, (as was Yeshu) a people subjugated and region occupied by Rome. So how were either of them logical invaders of Rome?
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Among all the apostolic figures, Paul was unique in claiming Roman citizenship.
Well, thats because he was a Roman agent sent to pacify the Jesus movement.
Jk, but seriously… but not… kinda.
I wholeheartedly subscribe to the Paul as spy/spook for Rome conspiracy theory, replacing James (Jesus’ brother) as leader of the movement, and turning it from a People’s Front of Judea revolutionary movement to a Roman Citizens for a Peaceful Palestine movement.
His crucifixiction at the orders of Nero kind of belies that interpretation.
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Yeah, because covert agents are never tied up as loose ends.
The history of the First Century C.E. reveals that Hebrew cults were in high fashion at the time as the Romans growing tire of the gods they had imported from Greece were looking for more sophisticated fare so you had the rise of Hebraic cults and newer gods such s the cult of Mithras which would become Christianity’s biggest competition.
The Jesus movement in Judea was in itself no big shakes as Messiahs were popping up like weeds in a field and as many of them sere activists seeking independence their crucifixtions became common fare.
The reason Christians became lion fare was their refusal to acknowledge the Emperor as diety, a concession generally made by most other cults to secure tolerance.
Idk. Josephus reports that Queen Helena of Adiabene converted to Judaism around the time that Jesus was crucified. This would have been when the movement was led by James. With the gentile ruler of a nearby nation suddenly supporting Judean revolutionaries, it might have been important to the Romans to get a guy on the inside, one of their bounty hunters already persecuting the Jesus followers.
We know James was persecuted, and eventually killed. It’s very likely that James was The Righteous One of the essenes, mentioned in their scrolls found at Qumran, which is an aside but interesting nonetheless. They were law observers. Which Paul was… when it was convenient, but he was not when it was not.
I don’t know. I just have a hard time believing that the Christian story is so factually pro roman and anti-semetic all the time, despite being anti-Nero, which was not surprising given the earliest time period to which the canon can be prescribed. Even the Anti-Nero parts are disguised heavily in Revelation, and the church fathers debated including Revelation in the canon at all, but it won out on popularity and distribution. Or maybe the villain of the story really is a theiving accountant whose name means “Jew” and sold out Jesus for 30 pieces of Silver. But I doubt it.
I believe that’s entirely due to Paul’s influence who pretty much converted the Cult of the Nazarene to a Greco/Latin movement. the bulk of his Letters after all are to Churchs in Greece and other areas of the Mediterreanian world but virtually nothing to anything in Judea in and of itself. We think of Christianity as the Church of Christ theoretically founded by Peter, but it’s much more the Church of Paul, a .k.a. Saul of Tarsus.
It’s kind of like those who suspect that Socrates was nothing more than a character created by Plato.
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Exactly. I believe, mostly due to the works of scholars like Robert Eisenmann, that this was intentional, and Roman sponsored.
I’ve got no horse in this race, but a Bible verse that always blew my mind as a kid was when a bunch of folks were beating Paul. He screamed “I am a citizen of Rome!” and they immediately stopped hitting him, because they knew the punishment would be more than commensurate.
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His primary story is about his journey to Rome having made the appeal that as a citizen of Rome he’d be judged by the Emperor.
Historically Nero is written to have ordered the executions of both Paul and Peter.
Historically, Nero is written about almost exclusively by his opponents. Tacitus hated Nero even more than he hated Christians, and wrote most of what we think we know about Nero’s persecution of Christians (which undoubtedly happened, but to a lesser extent than Marcus Aurelius’ persecution of Christians which we hear almost nothing about)
That said, only tradition holds that Paul was beheaded and martyred, Eusibius wrote about it 200 years after Paul’s death. Even so, this death was dignified. As a roman citizen he was not subject to the kind of torture and sport Peter was. Nero killed his own mother, with less dignity than Paul (first trying to have her killed in an engineered shipwreck, then ordering a soldier to stab her.) Additionally Robert Eisenmann ridicules the “loose house arrest” Paul was allegedly under during his second imprisonment, prior to his execution.
Ain’t this the truth, we PC’s (as a faction unto itself I might add) might have the 3rd highest body count in the whole game lore-wise.
What a stupid and offensive joke to make.
The Orcs aren’t the colonizers, you absolute baffoon. They were literally gifted land by the Tauren in return for their service in the centaur war. The Tauren were supposed to be the wise spiritual leaders of the Horde. They only began taking a political backseat after Cairne died (and Baine is a whole other can of worms. If you wanna go after stereotypes and offensive portayals of natives, start there).
The humans and dwarves, in this scenario, are the colonizers. This is literally how it’s portrayed in Horde quests going as far back as vanilla.
Wait, why am I even pretending to take this nonsense seriously?
Edit: Also why did this show up on the front page of the story forum? just realizing now how old this is.
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I mean… that was kind of their identity since the first WC game. Coming to Azeroth to colonize it, and the native races could obligingly die to get out of their way. Sure that started as a plot of the Legion, but even Doomhammer fully intended to colonize the planet for the Orcs.
What… Centaur War? Also, I didn’t think the Tauren, ‘gifted,’ Durotar to the Orcs. Always seemed like the line there was that the Orcs had, ‘tamed,’ that land.
Perspective is quite a thing. When you get down to it, every race has been a colonizer at one point or another in WoW’s history. That’s also kind of WoW’s writing though. You can accuse one faction of something, but the other faction tends to be equally as guilty of that same crime.
Well, right now at least the only crime the Horde alone is guilty of is genocide, but I’ve kvetched enough about how stupid that was, and how the only way to fix that is a full on timeline reset to post WC3:TFT and starting over.
At best you can accuse the Alliance of attempted genocide. The Horde alone has actually committed it. Stupidest story decision ever.
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The “Alliance bad!” people really got trolled by this?
The OP even admitted it was Sunday lmao.
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The Orcs are colonizers though. They’ve removed the native species of Quillboar and settled Durotar.
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Solarion everything you’ve said is objectively incorrect and I’ll tell you why:
And you know as well as I do that they were a tribal, shamanistic people like the Tauren before the Legion corrupted them. This is like saying the Easterlings from Tolkien are “colonizers” for following Sauron. Only, even in that case, Sauron didn’t literally turn them into steroid junkies with little free will.
For Khaine’s sake, people…
PLAY. WARCRAFT. 3. I promise it’s a good video game.
The Tauren gave Durotar to the Orcs. This is canon.
The Tauren and Orcs became incredibly close after Thrall saves their people from centaur (or was it quilboar?). Cairne takes the orcs under his wing, and especially Thrall, because he sees who the Orcs could be if the Tauren guided them on a more spiritual path. This is why it sucks that Cairne died because people forget this stuff. Cairne was a wise genius who saw the potential in having a Horde on his side, but wanted to guide them toward a more constructive path. They discuss history and ideology, and in the end they join forces to destroy each other’s enemies.
The Tauren use the orcs and trolls to bolster their own forces, the Tauren finally win Mulgore and settle there, and in return they gift the Orcs and Trolls the land of Durotar. I hate this idea that Tauren are just sideline victims in all this. It’s disgusting. And if anything, it’s a REAL example of anti-native stereotypes creeping into this fanbase.
The Tauren are smart. They are clever. They saw an opportunity to have a massive army on their side and they took it. The Tauren are also spiritual and moral. They wanted to be the Horde’s new guides as they rediscover the path to Shamanism.
There is literally never a single hint of any kind of colonizer relationship here. The relationship between Tauren and Orcs has no significant similarities to that of Native Americans and European colonizers. If anything, it has more in common with how Native Americans interacted with OTHER EXPLOITED MINORITY GROUPS at the time. History is full of examples of African slaves interacting with and befriending native tribes.
Frankly, I find the comparison the OP is making to be both childishly ignorant of the story, as well as offensive as a black person.
No, the races coded to be african, latino, and mongolian are NOT the colonizers, people. Jesus Christ.