However, you forgot to mention way of earth also benefits from the pvp % hp increase. This should not work this way. Pvp health increase should scale off of base health. 5k hp in bgs while everyone else has 2-3k is nuts.
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I did the same exact playtesting OP. It genuinely is hilariously powerful.
I think a solution to double rockbiter isn’t to limit it to 1 - but make Lava Lash require Flametongue on offhand to be usable. This forces the shaman into choosing a spammable instant DD or more AP.
Then, coupled with “Dual Wield” that they learn from the Lava Lash rune - add a modifier that decreases the AP given by Rockbiter by 40% if applied to both equipped weapons. This in-effect changes the off-hand Rockbiter to 20% of the AP, completely removing the desire to use two.
I agree with WoTE requiring shield.
I also think Shield Mastery needs to go from 8% + 0 IGCD → 5% + 1s IGCD. It’s literally 3 times better than Paladin mana restore against a single mob, let alone multiple.
Why is Molten Burst the best aoe threat ability in the game for so little cost occurrence and such insanely low skill floor? Just mash fire cone of cold and hold agro forever.
Alpha is goofy. I don’t know why it exists at all. Imagine if salving someone gave the Paladin 20% increased AP lol.
Also why are all necessary/insanely powerful Shaman runes linear to the orc leveling path? You get like… 5? in Durotar around razor hill for free. Then the best tank rune in the game that every other class has to struggle bus to get… for… purging a ghost npc… with a static spawn… in linear path to Crossroads… Then Alpha you just jump off a bridge onto a rock for. They’re all perfectly laid out for ease of access…
The only “ughhh, i have to actually play the game? this bloooows.” is the Maelstrom rune.
The single thing I think I would give to shamans while stripping a literal thousand attack power + easiest tanking in game off them… is a SM skill book to increase weapon enchants from 5mins → 15mins + reduced cost.
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If you’re going to try and deflect as a primary argument, your comparisons need to at least make sense.
Although you haven’t made any sense this entire thread so I won’t be holding my breath.
Complaining about molten blast when it is completely irrelevant in raid and pvp is so funny to me. You legit want then to make a balance change for tanks doing dungeons. The way the devs justified the alpha ap buffs is so enh shamans don’t have to take a rune that does nothing for them damage wise. It is quite silly.
Mathematically false. Go change your diaper, semi-incontinent.
RB/RB is legit not some scary evil demon people are making it out to be. Yes it is strong but its not even the bis damage imbue combo even for tank shamans. RB/FT with the fire debuff legit sims the same as RB/RB. RB/FT in pvp is more burst focused as well while being the bis imbue set up for high armor classes. Changing RB/RB does legit nothing as the alternatives are just a viable.
Double rock biter is extremely high consistent damage that’s unobtainable by any other class. I’ll give rb/ft later tho and see how it feels! If it’s more damage than double RB ill be extremely surprised and dissapointed lol.
Both of those changes would be fine by me if we’re talking about trading my nerfs for your nerfs one for one. Let’s do it, because I’m easily getting the better deal lmao.
You do realize Exorcist and Avenger’s Shield share the same rune slot, right?
That’s the fundamental problem with Enhancement Shaman in its current form. Several of its runes do way too many things and there’s zero trade-off because you can take all of them. Literally the only tradeoff Enh Shamans have to make is Spirit of the Wolf for Decoy Totem between PvE and PvP.
But it doesn’t matter because double Rockbiter gives so much AP by itself that Spirit of the Wolf simply isn’t necessary in PvP for Enhancement to be too powerful.
RB/RB isn’t as scary as people are making it out to be well it is at 60. At level 40 for example RB/FT provides more burst and is better for killing high armor classes. Nerf RB/RB and nothing changes as the alternative options are just as powerful.
Yeah, I quit as well
My nerfs?
lol.
My post: Figured it applied here.
Lets be honest fellow Shaman’s we are currently overtuned to a degree. I’d rather we scale back some as well as other classes, primarily Shadow Priest. PvP should be fun and have counter play and currently it feels a bit to quick in general.
Suggestions from my experience so far, there are other peoples ideas lumped in here from other post.
In order to address WOTE and Rockbiter in PVP the only viable way to fix it would be as follows: Make Rockbiter Unique and make WOTE require a Shield in luau of loosing dual wield threat would need to be increased accordingly.
If we can only run a single Rockbiter that’d put our AP roughly around 750-800 (without alpha) in Gnomer Gear, which is expectable. No Shaman who wants to actually connect with there target runs Alpha in pvp.
This is the only resolution to make WOTE fair in pvp, currently it isn’t, we need to be honest about that, in order to maintain or survivability in pvp I propose Shamanistic Rage have it’s damage reduction increased to 45% and that it be usable while stunned, silenced or incapacitated. We need to be able to live long enough to reach our targets, survive a Rogue’s opener, or a Paladin’s burst window. Without WOTE we go down very easy and very quickly.
These changes would effectively bring us down to more acceptable level in pvp and pve without reducing our effectiveness to much. Shaman’s should be a force to be reckoned with, but being a tank and pumping out the amount of damage we do is certainly imbalanced.
I would like to propose some idea’s as well on how to fix two handed and make it close to as effective as dual wield.
Two Handed Mastery: Increases attack speed by 30%, attack power by 30%, spell chance by 8%, and increases the chance to proc Windfury weapon by 20%.
New Two-Handed Rune, Stormblast: (Requires a two-handed weapon) Strike the target dealing 85% weapon damage and additional 25% damage as nature, each strike increases your nature damage against the target by 3% stacking up to 5. 6 Second cooldown 35 mana (debuff could last say 15 seconds).
You could tweak the numbers, but two-handed needs an additional melee attack. I feel like a stacking debuff would help bridge the gap in pve and allow it to close in on Dual Wield, without it wildly effecting burst.
These are my suggestions, any thoughts folks?
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The ease of use, lack of talent point requirement, high threat, and everything else is the problem.
Paladins to get an equivalent have to spend 11 points into Holy for no reason, preventing them from accessing capstones for a massive delay. It’s borderline mandatory.
Would you be fine with losing Storm Strike entirely to go 11 points into Resto to get Molten Burst? No? Then it’s uneven in balance.
Not to mention - where’s the -50% healing output on Shield Mastery? Paladin GBTL mana restore absolutely murders your healing to increase your mana regen. Where’s the equal-opposite?
“WhY WouLD I TAEk A GrouP UTilITyEe RuNe Fi Fit DOESn’T BENEEFitrtt MEEEEEEE” is a goofy argument. Paladin Horn, nor Tremor totem, nor Seal of Martyr give 20% ap for free - and they’re all group utility runes.
This is the only resolution to make WOTE fair in pvp, currently it isn’t, we need to be honest about that, in order to maintain or survivability in pvp I propose Shamanistic Rage have it’s damage reduction increased to 45% and that it be usable while stunned, silenced or incapacitated . We need to be able to live long enough to reach our targets, survive a Rogue’s opener, or a Paladin’s burst window. Without WOTE we go down very easy and very quickly.
Lol, what? You want Paladin to get quite literal shieldwall in pvp on a short cooldown? That also restores mana, and party mana?
Shamanistic Rage needs to have it’s mana restore component from others dropped entirely and then left as is… it’s already insanely powerful.
Your “suggested change” is wolf-in-sheeps-clothing of trying to act like you’re in favor of balance, but in reality you just want to not be bound to WoTE - then be tremendously stronger.
Shaman already has enough DPS. Holding two separate spots in the top 5 is goofy. Proposing a “totally fair, I swear!” rune addition that gives Shaman another instant hit with the ability to slot machine windfury is insane. I get your class fantasy is unga-bunga orc with big maec go BONK BONK SKAWWRYY HAND OF WAGNAWOSE! or whatever… but that suggestion is so far-fetched that it’s insane.
According to who? Because you play Shaman? No. You should be 100% equal to every other class that can perform tank, melee, ranged, and healer - which is dead last in individualized spec performances. Jack of all trades - but people always forget the second part - master of none.
Your opinion means nothing then.
the reason shaman get so much stuff for “free” is they diddnt have a near fully functioning tank spec like pallies already did.
they had to retrofit the shaman with the rest of the tools to actually be a fully functioning tank.
but you dont care about that.
you want to fully gut the shaman for daring to exist.
You seem extremely upset, perhaps we can try to talk without the hostility?
I feel like I suggested some pretty fair exchanges, all which could be tweaked numerically to be made to work, it’s up to Blizzard to balance such things.
If you played a two-handed enhancement shaman you’d understand it feels awful in comparison. You give up entirely to much to be very sub-par, the windfury procs aren’t near as strong as you believe them to be in SOD.
SOD is about trying new things and having fun, lets not stomp that out because your bitter about BLIZZARD over tuning something.
You want your own personalized head-canon fantasy/class fiction desires to be made into a core tenant of gameplay. That’s not a realistic “let’s try new things and have fun!” that’s "give me exactly what I want, this is what I want. Give it to me. Idc if I’m the best class in the game, I want more because it’s not how I, personally, explicitly, and only want to be play.
PS I feel:
so I need to be equal/better to everyone else.
Do you see how bad-faith this conversation is? You’re fine being overpowered provided it’s how you want to be overpowered, but because it’s overpowered in ways you don’t want - you want those ways gutted, and your personalized tumblr fan-fic shaman fantasy fulfilled.
Let me help you discover the bad-faith part: claiming you acknowledge the class is overpowered, but should be overpowered because “reckoned with”. That the ways you want to play need to be installed, because “those are fair” - and we need to nerf the other ways that you don’t enjoy.
But explicitly: No power should be lost. All power should remain identical, but just altered to the way I want to play it.
It’s akin to me saying… “I’d like to propose some ideas. I get a button that forces any Shaman I target – friendly, or foe – to log out and delete their character. I think this would be fair. What do you mean i’m mad? no your mad! what I want is fair, it would be fun for me!”
However they managed to add stuff to make rogues tanks and didn’t break them and they still work.
And yet they are nowhere near the power level of shaman tanks
2 Likes
My other suggestion
Rockbiter… drop the AP bonus to a third of what it is flat out… double the threat bonus.
Way of the earth imo SHOULD be able to be used while DW tanking however it does need to be fixed a bit maybe cannot use anything but rockbiter with it?
10/10 agree on alpha/beta
I don’t play against shaman, and hated mine for SoD by lvl 20 in p1…
That being said, I can at least notice patterns as I do bg A TON. I did 3x wsgs today between my toons (mostly farming ab for rep), and only one game had less than 6x shaman (it still had 4x). It’s pretty clear what the fotm class is right now. One of the shaman ran in on a 4v1 and killed 3 before I could come over and drop bombs on the 4th… I have no way of knowing just how bad those alliance where, because their team got relentlessly stomped, but casually strolling into a 4v1, especially as a melee should be a death sentence, if even a single player of the 4 is semi conscious.
Personally speaking I’m just really upset about the handling of shaman in general. I actually really enjoy vanilla enhance pvp… It’s a meme build to be sure, but it’s a fun spec to challenge yourself on… SOD enhance isn’t even the same class, it’s too different. You don’t use a 2h, you don’t use windfury… *insert godfather scene crying about how they massacred his boy
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