You bought gold on this server
(i know who you are)
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Well there is a way you can reconciliate those statements, I just don’t think it’s very realistic and it sounds more like wishful thinking for those who want to pretend their GDKP participation not only nets them a lot of gold, it also fights RMT! lol
So let’s assume you add-up all GDKP ledgers across all toons for each player, etc. In the end some people made a profit in in-game gold (net seller) that they can use for their raid expenses or so on… and others got a loss (net buyer) that they had to make up by farming gold somewhere. There might be a lot more players in the 2nd group… maybe a bunch of casuals are spending a bit in GDKP and a smaller group of players at the top are making a large profit. I think that’s likely personally but can’t prove it. The basic and non-controversial point is that there are net sellers and net buyers across all ledgers, it’s not everyone merely breaking even by earning on their main and spending exactly the same on their alt.
Anyway…
The theory for GDKPs reducing RMT is that there is more “averted RMT” from potential gold buyers in the first group (those who netted a profit of in-game gold from GDKPs) than “additional RMT” from the gold buyers in the 2nd group (those who incurred a loss of in-game gold), so the net effect is to reduce RMT volume. I see no evidence or a priori reason for that. You can make arguments about player psychology but as I tried to show in the discussion with Eyr above it cuts both ways (some players are satisfied with the cut, some are greedy for more loot).
When you have to try to rationalize it that much, and admit it’s not realistic at all, and try to make up some ridiculous hypothetical to try to fit that idea, it’s because it’s not true.
Occam’s razor.
Don’t buy into the BS.
Sorry you didn’t get passed the log check little bro, but your dad guild is full of swipers
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Yes. (i know him and others in there)
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also we told you guys that constant respeccing was good for deflating the economy 
you did not listen
you
did
not
listen
Here’s a simpler example hopefully for everyone. Just replace GDKPs with boosting (I mean e.g. a mage soloing a dungeon for power levelling in exchange for gold).
“Banning boosting increases RMT because now some players that were paying for their consumes by boosting with their mage have to buy gold instead.”
It’s the same argument. It only looks at one side of the ledger and/or assumes that the potential gold buyers are predominantly on that side of the transaction.
To be clear I don’t think boosting, playing the AH, making money via GDKPs or selling summons or whatever (as long as you’re not reselling your proceeds on the RMT market) is illegitimate on the servers where Blizzard allows it. But it’s weird pretending that some in-game player-driven markets encourage RMT and others don’t, as they all provide more uses for gold.
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Weekly respecs aren’t a thing yet anyways, pvp isn’t out
not really not everyone is a mage who wants to boost, for one thing. while everyone can do gdkp making gold while doing end game content they were going to do anyway. one obviously has a much bigger effect than the other.
But that’s the thing, not everyone is netting gold with GDKPs. It’s just money changing hands, so anyone making a net profit on the long run is compensated by others spending gold they obtained outside of GDKPs. So there are sellers and buyers just like for boosting, AH or any other in-game market.
Also, “they were going to do anyway” is not exact either. Plenty of people have said they would stop raiding with a toon that outgears a raid if they can’t make money from it. So by running the content they don’t need gear from in exchange of a payout, they are providing a service similar to the mage soloing a dungeon that they don’t need the EXP from in exchange of gold.
Context and Background.
On WMC we have a lot of GDKP raids in chat; I don’t know how “Good” they are, but the 5 that I have done were some of the best pugs I have ever been in … I would say they’re better than some guilds in respect to speed and efficiency.
Because of how GDKP works, at the base level that I have participated in being ZG / BWL runs, all items are auctioned at the end of the run, the valuable items go for a ton of gold, and the players seem to very keen on saving up enough gold to buy those items. I am not sure what the price is on gold, but lets say 10 dollars buys 10000 gold, this means a 60K tiger in ZG costs 60 dollars. This is the low very end of things on the scale of items that get bid for a lot of gold. Because players are incentivized to horde gold to buy the coveted loot they’re effectively taking that gold out of circulation.
Another interesting thing I noticed is how much gold you can get from a single ZG, of the 4 ZG’s I did all of them paid me about 700 on average with one brining that average down to the 700 because it was a 400 golds payout at the end after all items were auctioned.
I would not say the GDKP is fully deflationary but it certainly does seem to pull enough gold out of the economy on WMC to prevent new inflation from taking hold; I mention this because its possible to make money on the AH (How I make most of my gold), and at the same time the prices are very stable.
I cannot say for sure if there is any gold sellers on WMC, but from the lack of bots out in the world, I suspect that they’re not really able to get a foot hold here because GDKP pays enough gold out for raiders to buy their consumables.
Contrast this to NS realm where swipers swipe so hard they have already surpassed a 4 year old server in respect to state of inflation on the economy.
Regarding WMC, I am able to level new characters and by the time I hit 60 with Quests and auctioning of useable Greens and Blues am able to generate between 1500 and 2000 gold on average on the way to 60. My last character leveled was a Frost mage who ended with 1600 after buying an Epic mount and all the AQ books and class skills and enchants without any use of GDKP at all ever on him.
I use to be VERY opposed to GDKP, but observing it over the last year has changed my mind on the problem, and I now understand the real issue is Swipers ruining the game. The only way to deal with them is to ban them permanently for even the smallest gold buy; i don’t care if they come back long as they dont break the rules again. Break the rules, get banned should be the way we do it.
Because they’re addicted to the game you can ban them over and over and eventually they will stop buying gold, but they will keep playing, and even better non-gold buyers like myself will be far more inclined to stick around as a result.
Whats his character name?
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“Because players are incentivized to horde gold to buy the coveted loot they’re effectively taking that gold out of circulation.”
I agree it incentivizes gold hoarding, but at the same time it also incentivizes doing what it takes to obtain that gold in the first place. And once the item drops it’s put back into circulation. Unless most players save for things that never drop, the hoarding is not permanent storage. To make a metaphor with carbon, it’s a tree you’re growing to cut eventually.
“I would not say the GDKP is fully deflationary but it certainly does seem to pull enough gold out of the economy on WMC to prevent new inflation from taking hold; I mention this because its possible to make money on the AH (How I make most of my gold), and at the same time the prices are very stable.”
I think there is less inflation on a old server simply because there is more gold being circulated relative to the gold being farmed. On a fresh server people haven’t accumulated a lot of gold, so it’s worth doing stuff like farming low-level dungeons only for vendoring, but that’s not the case on a mature server and you’ll looking at profit with high-end mats, etc. I assume most of the gold you make on your 1-60 journey is from selling stuff rather than raw gold drops and vendoring, correct?
Anyway, that’s a nice thing from being on a old rather than fresh server. (I’m enjoying Dreamscythe for now but will probably go back to era at some point, and I’m levelling a warrior on era not fresh, because I’d rather not compete with everyone for the same rare loot.) But the inflation and RMT can be somewhat discoupled. If most people are making gold via sales of mats and services rather than raw gold farming on Era, that could be the case from gold sellers as well. RMT can be done with recirculated gold without being very inflationary.
Herbs and crystals should take a nice dip, fingers crossed. Open world farming is terrible right now.
True, and I do not disagree; I know for sure there have gotta be some really wealthy whales out there that can afford the tens of thousands on a video game for their gear while displaying a pitiful parse at the end. “Because gear will fix it”… (it does not)
Problem with Whales is that if there were not GDKP’s they would just buy an RMT carry like in Retail right now and pay for the slot and the loot they want in real money to the guild; in turn the guild uses that money to buy blizzard gold or china gold to pay for consumes for Mythic Raid.
There is no perfect system in wow, and getting rid of all RMT is hard.
But getting rid of gold buying is not as hard as blizzard make it out to be; they just don’t want to do it because Tens of thousands of Gold bots is Tens of Thousands of Subs on FRESH right now, and that artificially makes their numbers look a lot better than they really are because technically those are paid subs and paid subs keep the bills paid and the share holders happy.
Take away tens of thousands of subs and suddenly people raise eyebrows and ask questions. Last thing you want in corporate is questions from upper management, but in this situation its combination of projected budget figures or in the case of a classic wow team likley just a numbers met objective and the desire to keep it all below the radar and the budget as small as possible while maximizing profits. This is how corporate works in near every western nation, its a big suck and everyone who’s ever done it knows.
As for GDKP, really its not the problem, its the Gold buyers who pollute the game who’re the problem… and the biggest expense in WoW is raid consumables by a mile because they are never ending… Meanwhile GDKP loot has an end, because once you’re BiS for the raid loggers who buy gold… its over, they don’t buy anymore because they don’t raid any more…
The thing about GDKP is that it has gold turn over, and because of that some of the gold is used for consumables to raid the next raid, and for PVP’rs use it for consumables for both raid and PVP. Either way if they participate in GDKP and want look they’re going to stock pile just like Traditional DKP when you’re after items for example like DFT, its going to be expensive in Traditional DKP guilds or GDKP guilds, you’re gonna pay the big costs for that.
LC guilds like I prefer award it to optimal roles and so meme specs getting that is just outa the question if projected progression is to be met.
They should start closing these threads everyone knows since the gdkp ban we’ve lived in a utopian society where everyone was wealthy and happy and there was no rmt or bots anymore.
This is just fake propaganda.
insert sarcasm
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Yeah, there were 2 WSGs running at one point last night, and Stormwind is pretty crowded on Whitemane. It’s hard to keep a good server down.
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I’m just here for TBC. Classic WoW can (and has) gone to the dogs.
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Like an Undead Troll, regenerating player base and there is nothing that Blizzard can do about it.
Tbc will be fairly dead
Tbc players flaunting their 3rd string xpac look pitiful talking like this
Btw I think tbc is better than wrath, so I’m not bias
Just control the ego