I feel like I reluctantly agree - only because if they had done that, we’d not have the horde of dingbats and RPers who STILL hold these incredibly ludicrous views. Some epic “cope”, as it were.
If there’s one thing Blizzard has proven itself to be exceedingly poor at, it’s predicting fan reaction to its story.
In any case, my personal theory for the whole disjointed nature of the Horde story is that this came about because the version of BfA we have now was actually a last-minute rewrite of the story, using some of the same assets in different places. Horde characters don’t talk about Teldrassil because in the original version of the story it went down way differently.
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She says that the Night Elves were just hiding in trees or sleeping in dens while the Sin’dorei have been fighting to save the world which is obviously not true. The Night Elves fought off Archimonde and helped fight off the Legion while the Sin’dorei only dealt with problems that were right at their doorstep.
Again, I said I noticed it, should’ve maybe said that it’s how I perceived it instead. I’m not too good with wording sometimes, but this thread shouldn’t be about that now.
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Sylvanas choose to not involve Baine on the attack at Darkshore before convincing Saurfang, it might be implied Sylvanas was hiding the truth from certain characters.
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Liadrin being gung-ho at Stromgarde made (a bit) more sense when we were told the Horde’s main goal there was to defend Silvermoon from invasion. That’s not really apparent in the actual game though, so she just seems like an unthinking henchwoman for Sylvanas… which was probably not what they were going for, but still. In failing to give these “heroes” any substantial opinion or defense of the war they’re fighting on behalf of a genocidal zombie, they did a lot of damage to the direction and moral integrity of these characters.
It’s just negligent writing. They know having Liadrin follow a character like Sylvanas is awkward, but rather than address it they ignore it altogether. She really could have used a bit of flavour text like Garona and Voss.
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Not true =/= lie. Your wording is fine - I understood exactly what you mean, and it is unfortunately a rather common view here. The issue is that what you believe is incorrect.
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Or Blizzard didn’t write it because it would have revealed things early on in the alpha, which if they didn’t want that to happen they should have not had something so grossly enraging.
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I think more evidence points to a last-minute rewrite. I’ll grant you it’s entirely circumstantial, but it explains several things, like Rexxar’s seeming dementia, the plot threads that trail off into nothingness (Ashvane), the contradictory statements given by Blizzard staff during pre-BfA interviews, Metzen’s surprise at the story direction, the Brennadam redo, and so on.
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Which if your theory is true…I have no respect to offer them.
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It’s only a theory, I have no hard proof, and will readily admit that. If it were true, I think it would explain some of the issues with story direction that we’ve all had with BfA, so I’ll leave it as my personal speculation backed up with circumstantial evidence.
I always figured it wasn’t so much the act of raising Derek that caused Baine to action, but rather the fact she was planning on brainwashing him. Free will is supposed to be a quarterstone of Forsaken culture, after all, and Baine didn’t complain about anyone else being raised.
Sylvanas just disregarding her own people’s values like that just showed Baine that literally nothing will hold Sylvanas. She’ll go back on anything she says as long as it’s convient. Raising Derek just proved Sylvanas was unreliable and untrustworthy.
But maybe I’m reading too into it and am giving Blizz too much credit. At least it makes for a nicer headcanon.
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They literally said it was like mop in before 8.1 came out
It’s not true cause those Saurfang cinematic take a long time to make and the other wow team was working on shadowlands
To me the Horde and Alliance have the opposite faction’s problems; the Alliance has a lot of fleshed out characters and character development, but doesn’t have nearly as much of a faction ‘feel’ or ‘mantra’, and the Horde has a very strong faction ‘feel’ and ‘mantra’, but absolutely terrible character development and character story.
They probably should have put more of a focus on the Horde’s motivations for the war.
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I actually think it’s the opposite.
The Alliance has a mantra, but very poor character development. The Alliance kind of falls on the back end of a story that is primarily driven by the Horde. Often times, forced to acting against their own self interest for the sake of the narrative and gameplay limitations. Not to mention the Alliance “mantra” can also be contradictory to the various races that inhabit the Alliance. The Alliance “fee” is basically Male Human Paladin fantasy heroism. It is very “The Knight who slew the Dragon” type of characterization. Which is sort of contradictory to the Savage Woodland Amazons that are Night Elves. Who back in WC3, were portrayed as very aggressive and uncompromising and intolerant of trespassers and outsiders in general. If anything, their interpretation of the Knight and the Dragon story would be a tragedy and an act of barbarism, rather than an act of heroism.
The Horde has a different problem. The mantra of the Horde is not properly defined. Sure, they have “Lok’tar Ogar! Victory or Death!” But that’s kind of shot them in foot. So far, it has been more death than victory except for the instances in which they join with the Alliance.
It is easy to see why, if you have a faction who’s slogan is “Victory or Death” vs a faction of Knightly heroes and warrior priests, who would you suspect to be the aggressor? And in traditional fantasy, who would you suspect to be the “Good Guys”?
So the Horde is frequently the aggressors for this reason… Reason being that it’s easy to write. You don’t need much nuance, and with the assumption that your customer base are children or just very stupid, you don’t want a nuanced story (Which is the most frustrating to me, because it is obvious Blizzard thinks we are idiots).
As aggressors, Horde characters are often the catalysts of major storylines. Because of that, the Horde gets some pretty great character development, but that development typically ends with death. As such with Garrosh, Saurfang and technically Vol’jinn. We can assume such is also the case with Sylvanas.
I think the Horde needs to be revisited. Writers need to figure out what the Horde is and what they stand for beyond Lok’Tar Ogar. With the implementation of a ruling Council, the Horde might get that. I think also, the Alliance needs to be a catalyst of a story as well, and the trick is to do that without flippantly killing off characters like they did with the Horde.
I think a good way to do this is having Alliance characters dealing with corruption from within. Perhaps Flynn Fairwind, as he develops a friendlier bond with Shaw, discovers that Shaw has been withholding or fabricating valuable military intelligence. Perhaps protecting Vanessa Van Cleef, the daughter of his old Friend, who’s death he still feels guilty over? Or perhaps Shaw knew about the War of Thorns, but withheld it as a plot of the Uncrowned to dismantle the factions?
Idk, anything like that. Where Alliance characters come into moral conflicts, not because they are mustache twirling evil, but because they are flawed.
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So…What you’re saying is that (Ashenvale and previous events aside) the Night Elves might have actually made a better fit among the Horde thematically?
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Eeeeeh, not sure. I think the Warsong coming in and on first contact sucking up demon juice and killing a Wild Gods, kind of burned the bridge.
With the Tauren, they would certainly fit in, but not so much with the orcs for the reasons stated above. Also, while savage and uncompromising, they were also isolationists. Whereas the Horde is very expansionist. tbh, I have a hard enough time believing the BEs and NBs can get along with the Trolls. Or, rather the reverse given the history.
And yeah, I know Darkspear not the same as Amani and so forth, but I am mostly talking back the situation with Zandalar and Azshara.
I really just think the Night Elves and Undead are the black sheep of their factions, and don’t really fit with either.
Blizzard deliberately left this unanswered as it had already been planned some time before hand that Saurfang would challenge the Banshee Queen to a mak’gora……about a third of the way through the expansions story…when it should’ve been right on the damn shore or shortly afterwards it when the Horde leaders where all present.
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It does sound dishonest. Yes the Kaldorei druids slept but the Sindorei only fought in the 2sd war near the end and they Troll wars wasn’t a world ending threat. Meanwhile the Night Elves have saved the world twice since WotA.
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