old god corrupted.
mass murder, prove it. They were invading land and harvesting their resources. They had a right to defend their land.
I am sorry I hurt you with such widdle logic. But in the real world when people go into other countries and began to harvest their material without the consent of that government. One of three things happen.1. They take out the government 2. They get forced out. 3. They die.
Not only that, but they REEKED of fel energy, to the point where Cenarius, their god, was like “Oh no, they’re demons, they’re back!”
And then they drank demon blood and kinda proved his point.
Uther had the authority to stop Arthas. As he himself correctly noted, Arthas lacked the authority to strip his rank or dismiss him from service - much less the entire order of the Silver hand.
What’s more, Uther had the ability to stop Arthas. Even if Arthas had the authority to boot Uther aside, Uther still had more power on his side, both personally and in manpower. Plus you know, the crazy-powerful Kul Tiran mage who was hanging out with them at the time.
When a dude tells you he’s going to murder a hell of a lot of people right now, and you know you have it in your ability to stop him before anyone gets hurt, what should you do? Stop him? or walk seventy miles to seek an audience with his dad so you can tattle? 'Cause Uther chose the latter and look what happened.
Seriously, either of these courses of action could have saved EVERYONE a lot of trouble:
Uther: “Oh close your head-hole, boy” Whacks in non-lethal with hammer
Jaina: “I can’t watch you do this, Arthas…” Casts polymorph
Tadaa, Lordaeon is saved.
Oh nothing like hitting someone with a sledgehammer to knock them out. Yeah, thats gonna work.
Okay but actually no. Arthas did have the ability to do what he did, which is why Uther went to Terenas. Uther did not have the authority to overrule the prince of his nation.
And, as an aside, the fact that you’re going this far (incorrectly) in to the lore, doing these kind of mental gymnastics kind of makes my point for me.
Guess we should start pointing out that the scourge killed those people when they infected the grain. The plague was created by the lichking at the time which was Ner’zul who was the original creator and leader of the Horde. Guess we should blame the Horde then for that massacre
In the real world, the aggrieved government confronts the trespassers, to find out who they are and what they’re doing. This is true even in instances of governments that aren’t real friendly with their neighbors. NOBODY goesi n guns blazing, because that creates what’s known as a “diplomatic incident” that can quickly escalate into something even messier.
Also it’s generally agreed among people in the real world that timber isn’t worth killing people over. Ever heard of “spiking”? It’s when someone hammers a metal rod into a tree so that when it’s harvested and cut, it will basically explode the saw, sending metal shrapnel all over the people doing the cutting. it can and has killed people. This is generally considered a socially unacceptable activity.
Now, that’s not to say that such violations have never resulted in immediate show of military force in the real world. it’s just that those instances can be named off as “The Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in 1990” or “the German invasion of Poland in 1939” or of course, that time hte US and the United Kingdom almost went to war over a pig. Not exactly the high points of history, is what I’m getting at, usually regarded as being on a spectrum between nonsensical (said pig war) or abominable (said invasion of Poland.)
Now bringing things back to Azeroth. The Night elves skipped a step.
“Green things are cutting trees, WE HAVE TO KILL THEM ALL!”
It’s a little insane.
Well, it takes like ten whacks with one of those things to take out a Murloc as i recall, so they can’t be THAT devestating.
Sure. Absolutely.
I’m just pointing out that the Alliance did worse than nothing to address the issue, and instead actively aggravated the problem through indifference (Terenas, Uther, Jaina) or opportunism (Garithos, whatever brain trust decided to fund and arm the Talib - er, Scarlet Crusade. )
As much as I sympathize, I don’t think eliminating Horde/Alliance conflict is a realistic goal for many meta game reasons. Worse yet, the last time we were in this exact situation, we followed an incredibly unsatisfying conclusion to the faction conflict by taking an expansion off, which lead to the status quo reset in the Horde/Alliance relationship that put us right back in this situation.
I’d rather try something different than risk following a redux of Mists with a redux of Warlords.
LMFAO you think gameplay represents lore. Okay I sense a troll now.
I see what you’re trying to say, but the devs aren’t keeping score and players going tit for tat is exactly how we generally got into this situation to begin with.
And invoking Godwin’s law never helps one’s argument.
Well, people shouldn’t invoke the 'real world" argument when talking about starting wars over nonhostile border violations if they don’t want to see examples of exactly that.
The point is, only crazy people commit murder over someone cutting down trees. And the Night elves committed lots of murder over this.
Sane action would be to approach them and be like “Hey, woah, there, then, what are you doing to my trees?” Instead, the Kal’Dorei shoot first and completely forget about asking questions, because “Our Elves Are Brütal”
Your argument fall flat as this isn’t the real world, The equivalent issue in the real world would be like walking into a church and then starting to tear it apart. you would expect those worshippers to try to stop you.
Just because you don’t understand their religion and make no attempt to understand it and refuse to leave that church. Your the one in the wrong.
By killing you, and everyone you know and love. That part holds up to a direct comparison.
Your argument is that if you unknowingly walk into a church and start tearing it apart, you would expect those worshipers to kill you and every member of your extended family.
When did they night elves do this during warcraft 3? what are you going on about?
When they attacked the Warsong clan? Were you under the impression those were pacifying arrows and cuddle treants?
Although this is really just an argument in bad faith to begin with. They didn’t attack and kill the Warsong clan for cutting down trees or “destroying a temple.” They attacked the Warsong clan because they smelled like demons.
that was one of the reasons they did. however you were destroying what they worship as well. they never hunted the warsong and everyone they loved lol. The warsong always could have left but they refused cause grom wanted to fight.
Actually the only reason. Find a developer quote that indicates your reasons valid and I’ll take your views seriously for a change. Bear in mind, you need to provide not just proof that they worship trees, but proof that the punishment for harming a tree in Night Elf culture is death.
Anyway, you go on to claim the Night Elves would have let the orcs leave at any time. This also seems to be based on literally nothing. Plus if the Night Elves believed the Orcs were a demonic threat worthy of destroying, this fantasy of yours that they would have simply let them walk away seems horribly irresponsible. Also contradicted by their intervention in the War of Shifting Sands where we see that the Night Elves do take action against existential threats outside their borders. Somehow in defending the Night Elves you’re making them seem crazier, is that your intent?
It never ceases to amaze me how head trauma is shown in fiction.
IT DOESN’T WORK LIKE THAT
Anyway, I would be pretty happy with the Horde zipping out of Ashenvale and Stonetalon with a “Sorry about all that”, the Alliance ditching the Barrens and letting the fundead have their spooky plaguepile back, and we all move on.
…I’m still wondering how the Horde is “weeks from total collapse” and then suddenly there’s too many Loyalists for half the Horde and most of the Alliance to take on. If I’m feeling charitable, I’ll go with “sieges are costly”.