The <AXIS> story

[anon3563431]

Since some newcomers review this server forum, I thought it would be helpful for them to know to be wary of invites to guild <AXIS>. Here is my story.

The name <AXIS> with military reference normally refers to the bad guys of World War 2. I am a curious type. I wondered whether <AXIS> was a secret society of white supremacists that came to Classic WoW to prove their supremacy over the tribal races of the horde. <AXIS> needed more to run a full guild raid, so I received an invite, and accepted out of curiosity. If they were racists I would have left and let everyone know. That was not apparent in the short time I was with them, but another type of hatefulness did appear from a small number of <AXIS> members, including leaders. Hatred toward hunters and those who disagree with their ideology.

I was involved twice in MC. Once to clear trash for a bracer or belt drop. Got a bracer. Yay! Once for a partial clear up to Golemagg the Incinerator. Got gloves. Yay again! However, my roll on Striker’s Mark, an epic bow dropped from Magmadar was ignored. It was restricted to only warriors or rogues as a “stat stick.” they said. Later, hunter BiS for dual wield dropped, and again all hunters were denied a roll. In addition, a hunter BiS ring dropped that hunters were not allowed to roll on. I learned by what they were saying that hunters were only allowed to /roll on tier set items. I was livid. I quit before having even been in the guild 48 hours.

I quit without saying anything, which is normal, especially for a new recruit. Someone did ask why I left, so I told them. I thought I had made clear why I had severed from the guild, because I could not get BiS with them. I disagreed with their gear appropriations. Simple. Nonetheless, several <AXIS> members began to /whisper harassingly over the next two weeks. Why they did really doesn’t matter because there is no reason for that in this game, but they all said my action was a ninja move. Now, let me make clear that these MC visits included pugs. It was by no means a guild only run. That is why /roll was used for all loot on every boss fight. Guild members were not given special treatment for a /roll. So, these several <AXIS> members writing hateful messages over supposedly deceiving the guild to receive loot was unfounded, and probably indicates an unsound mind. I don’t know whether these were out-of-control kids of guild leaders or adults with immature brains, but I would recommend that those looking for a guild steer clear of <AXIS> until their leadership are able to reduce their numbers to only those who represent the guild well. I will say that the unwanted whispers stopped after (I guess) a guild leader contacted me about something I had said about the guild in /LFG after a disturbing series of whispers by one <AXIS> member.

I never reported any of the harassers. I probably should have immediately. To this day, there are still a few who muffle their hate by saying benign things like “huntard” or calling me terrible. My current guildies have to see this in /say, which is how they speak to me now. It is a subtle type of harassment, but I do not think it is coordinated. Still, <AXIS> guild continues to harbor these ill mannered people, so I suggest those new to the server seeking a guild avoid <AXIS>. Definitely avoid it if you are a hunter.

I wish that I could recommend my current guild, but we are already running a full guild raid with extra on the sidelines. I don’t know who is recruiting but good luck in your search. I hope you get lucky to find a great guild. i wouldn’t have found my current guild, <Silent Affliction>, without having been through two bad ones. Share your experiences with others to help as I have done here. We can build the right guilds on Earthfury to keep it healthy for a long time to come.

[Aelsi-earthfury]

I was involved twice in MC. Once to clear trash for a bracer or belt drop. Got a bracer. Yay! Once for a partial clear up to Golemagg the Incinerator. Got gloves. Yay again! However, my roll on Striker’s Mark, an epic bow dropped from Magmadar was ignored. It was restricted to only warriors or rogues as a “stat stick.” they said. Later, hunter BiS for dual wield dropped, and again all hunters were denied a roll. In addition, a hunter BiS ring dropped that hunters were not allowed to roll on. I learned by what they were saying that hunters were only allowed to /roll on tier set items. I was livid. I quit before having even been in the guild 48 hours.

honestly it seems like you don’t understand Classic WoW itemization, even I know Striker’s Mark is not a hunter’s weapon and I’m not even a hunter lol…

[anon3563431]

even I know Striker’s Mark is not a hunter’s weapon

Please tell me the names of horde warriors geared in glass cannon stuff. I need a good list of easy targets.

[Aelsi-earthfury]

Please tell me the names of horde warriors geared in glass cannon stuff. I need a good list of easy targets.

you should be thankful your old guild stopped you from trying to PVP with a 2.5 speed bow

[Vlonk-tichondrius]

However, my roll on Striker’s Mark, an epic bow dropped from Magmadar was ignored. It was restricted to only warriors or rogues as a “stat stick.” they said. Later, hunter BiS for dual wield dropped, and again all hunters were denied a roll. In addition, a hunter BiS ring dropped that hunters were not allowed to roll on.

So, a newby hunter who don’t understand that striker’s mark is a downgrade compared to carapace spine crossbow / blackcrow / rhok’delar ( the most common weapon in MC, tied with benediction) while QQ’ing about brutality blade / quick strike ring being melee priority (for extremely obvious reasons).

moving on. the guild lost nothing of value.

I wondered whether <AXIS> was a secret society of white supremacists

probably avoided a easily offended snowflake too.

[Araneæ-sargeras]

Strikers mark should go to warriors/rogues… theres like 2-4 hunters per raid group and probably half of them already have rhok’delar so it isnt hard to get.
Also, im assuming youre talking about the brutallity blade? Its a crime to give that weapon to a hunter over a rogue/fury warrior.

You care more about whats best for you rather than whats best for your guild. Classic is very much a guild game so you should probably just stick with pugs where everything is free roll since youre going to run into this same issue with all good guilds.

[anon3563431]

you should be thankful your old guild stopped you from trying to PVP with a 2.5 speed bow

Striker’s Mark got me Master Sergeant. I PvPed with it fine, but it is my PvE BiS. I did eventually get that bow from another guild. A better guild. A guild with people who do everything better than I’ve seen before.

So, a newby hunter who don’t understand that striker’s mark is a downgrade compared to carapace spine crossbow / blackcrow / rhok’delar

Show me math. Not a link. Show me math. Like, actually show me math. Oh. You can’t. Other’s can, like me, but you can’t. Yet you have something to say?

You care more about whats best for you rather than whats best for your guild.

Fair point. Regardless of the treatment ill mannered people give I do try to recognize my errors. All of these mmorpgs present a conflict between being selfish enough and beling selfless enough. At some point the decision must be a value trade. I felt that Striker’s Mark was the right choice then and now. What is the value trade benefit for a warrior or rogue? Sacrifice stamina for 0.8 DPS over another “stat stick.”

Let’s talk about something else though. This thread was about the way people treat each other, yet the first three responders focused on my belief about gear. You three are missing the point as much the bad attitude members of <AXIS>.

[Aelsi-earthfury]

lol… looks like a good example of how you can bring a horse to water but you can’t force it to drink

[Symmetric-earthfury]

Show me math. Not a link. Show me math. Like, actually show me math. Oh. You can’t. Other’s can, like me, but you can’t. Yet you have something to say?

Can you supply the math comparing Striker’s Mark vs Carapace? Also, Striker’s vs Rhok’Delar? I am curious how you found that Striker’s is your BiS.

Striker’s Mark got me Master Sergeant.

You could literally equip a starter bow and hit R4. This means nothing.

[Araneæ-sargeras]

So atm, all dps warriors/rogues will be using blackcrow/satyrs bow which is 1% hit 3 agil. 22ap > 3 agil. Now, is this a massive upgrade? lolno. But, its at least their BiS where for a hunter it isnt even close to your bis. If you would have stayed with your guild you most likely would have a rhok delar within a month, where as some of these warriors/rogues will be using it into AQ.

Itemization among classes in classic have so much overlap and most of the time theres 1 or 2 classes where the item is 10x better. The main value of guilds in classic is giving people something thats bigger than any one player. Something that allows items to go to the classes that benefit far more from these items rather than having a chaotic free-for-all where everyones greed runs rampant.

Thats what Guilds do in classic, they provide a “higher power” that allows 40 people to put their personal needs aside and work together towards one single goal, the improvement of the raid group itself.

[Vlonk-tichondrius]

Show me math. Not a link. Show me math. Like, actually show me math. Oh. You can’t. Other’s can, like me, but you can’t. Yet you have something to say?

i have a feeling you share the same paradigm as flat earthers.

it’s kind of sad we have to explain autoshot clipping to a lvl 60 hunter.

[Scrutiny-shandris]

We had a hunter (now formerly of the guild) try to argue that Striker’s Mark was a solid upgrade. Couldn’t tell him otherwise. Sadly for him he was replaceable.

[anon3563431]

We had a hunter … he was replaceable.

… for a hunter it isnt even close to your bis. If you would have stayed with your guild you most likely would have a rhok delar within a month, where as some of these warriors/rogues will be using it into AQ.
…

Now five of six posts all focused on our disagreement about what is BiS for hunter. The thread was about use of /whisper and /say to harass with abusive speech and annoying provocation. The only thing spergs can be mindful of is damage damage damage, like Beavis (from Beavis & Butthead) in a frenzy about fire. Damage. Damage. Damage. Crit. Crit. Crit.

Listen, I have no qualms with you having an opinion. I am not a product of the Blizzard system. This is my first experience with original WoW content. As such, I have had to rely on my own math after learning to distrust disguised private server info and a slew of outdated wrong information peddled as new. I trusted wowhead and only that part of icy-veins which could be checked by other sources. Players are also not a credible source.

So let’s talk about time, since you brought it up in respect to value trades. So, a hunter can get an epic bow immediately upon Striker’s Mark drop, or wait their turn for two drops and epic quest completion. Later, through several months, the (mostly) unchanging warriors and rogues can still get their small AP gain with a fancy purple “stat stick.” Alternatively, you could force every hunter to use a less desirable weapon until they have their turn on Rhok’delar.

I have both Rhok’delar and Striker’s Mark. The first is my solo (PvP) BiS. The second is my raid (PvE) BiS, and it works better for soloing elites too. More importantly, I had an epic bow for over a month before I got my turn to earn Rhok’delar after epic quest completion. With the pace of content release five to six weeks is a long time. I got ample use in PvE & PvP with Striker’s Mark. Now I am closer to having the perfect set where both will server their BiS purpose.

Before ending this I want to refocus back on the purpose of this thread. It is about us, how we treat each other. Do we act like ignorant juveniles harassing each other over every disagreement, or do we make a great game together for good memories and respect of each other?

[Alsoria-earthfury]

This clueless argument again?

[anon3563431]

It is about us, how we treat each other.

This clueless argument again?

… um … ok

[Vlonk-tichondrius]

The thread was about use of /whisper and /say to harass with abusive speech and annoying provocation

really?

cause it seems to me you’re just a bad hunter causing loot drama cause you don’t understand itemization. A swift gkick is the best way to handle that situation.

The only thing spergs can be mindful of is damage damage damage, like Beavis (from Beavis & Butthead) in a frenzy about fire. Damage. Damage. Damage. Crit. Crit. Crit.

Well yes, DPS class first and primary concern is… dps’ing. you got that part right.

As such, I have had to rely on my own math

yeah… seems like you’re not good at it. First step would be to look into autoshot clipping.

I trusted wowhead and only that part of icy-veins which could be checked by other sources. Players are also not a credible source.

wowhead and icy-veins are players-sourced.

force every hunter to use a less desirable weapon until they have their turn on Rhok’delar.

which is the most common drop in MC ( with no competition outside of other hunters), tied with benediction… kind of an important detail.

Now I am closer to having the perfect set where both will server their BiS purpose.

except that striker’s mark isn’t anywhere close to BIS. it’s inferior to dungeon blues… but that has already been pointed out and you rejected it.

Before ending this I want to refocus back on the purpose of this thread. It is about us, how we treat each other. Do we act like ignorant juveniles harassing each other over every disagreement, or do we make a great game together for good memories and respect of each other?

drama queen / loot wh0res deserve no respect whatsoever.

[Natallia-earthfury]

Hmmm… >.>

<.<

So I’m going to do this as respectfully as I can without casting any shade. As far as I have researched and looked into our class, Striker’s Mark is not listed anywhere near our BiS. I’m going to humor this theory however and give you the math that you are requesting.

First we’ll look at both Bows

Rhok’Delar
2.90 speed
89-166 dmg
43.97 dps
1% Crit
+17 ap, or rap if you prefer.

Striker’s Mark
2.50 speed
69-129 dmg
39.60dps
1% Hit
+22 ap

So, just by looking at it Rhok’delar already has higher dmg and dps just from the raw stats. Striker’s Mark contains 5 more RAP than Rhok and has 1% hit over crit. Outside of the hunter rotation, I’ll get to that, the real point being justified is if 1% hit and 5 ap is worth more than the 1% crit.

If we look at stat weights, our #1 stat is hit, followed by crit, agi, ap, etc. So while hit does come first there are a lot of pieces, mainly your tier and DM rings, that will hit cap you, and in some instances, over hit cap you. Crit on the other hand is our next top stat until the soft cap of 25%. 1% crit is worth 32 ap, thus negating the ap gap between Rhok and Striker’s.

Hunter Rotation and Attack Speeds. We never want anything faster than our aimed shot which is a little faster than 3 seconds, about 2.7 or 2.8 depending on your quiver, because of clipping our auto shots. A slower speed, or longer cast, means the aimed shot will hit harder, and the autoshot will hit harder as well. This goes back to the raw damage difference, the next shot after your aimed will always be larger on a slower weapon. Same goes for multishot, etc.

After looking into it again, there is no way Striker’s Mark is a viable weapon over Rhok. I tried to look at some of your logs to see what your dps is to compare to but you haven’t been logged since Oct. and I don’t see that as relevant. If you have anything I have overlooked that you can bring to light I am happy to look over it again but there’s just nothing to support that whatsoever; evem BM uses Aimedshot in Classic.

In the end, please don’t flame others over this. I mean, hunters get a bad rep as it is anyway. There are tons of guides and explanations to help guide you as well if you have questions. Hope this helps to bury this argument.

Edit: I read further into the posts and wanted to comment on what this post was ‘really about’ so to speak. The reason people keep listing your BiS and what is more preferable to you is because it is in the guild’s interest to give upgrades to the best possible candidates that will have a profound effect and longevity. I personally received my leaf on my third raid, and out of the 5 hunters that have went in and out of our guild at the time each of them received their leaf and sinew within a week. It’s not difficult for us to get our bow, but melee and even tanks who struggle to hit cap due to their tier not providing the hit needed is valued a lot higher than our minor upgrade. It is somewhat selfish and rude to expect a minor upgrade over your fellow guild mates and expect to be justified. So while I understand your post is about playing nice and not getting harassed, people are going to bring up the BiS argument due to ignorance and arrogance shown when you ask people for math. Sorry, just not buying it.

[Alsoria-earthfury]

It is about us, how we treat each other.

This clueless argument again?

… um … ok

Um yeah. You’re just adding to the huntard stereotype. might be best to know your class as other hunters are pointing it out and you barely say a word.

[Aru-gurubashi (Aru)]

Different guilds will obviously have some variation in drop priorities.

That being said, strikers should not go to a hunter. Rhok is a far easier weapon to aquire and is objectively significantly better in both PvE and PvP. Strikers, on the other hand, has a much lower drop rate and is BiS for melee dps for a long time.

Brutality Blade is a part of our BiS dual wield setup, but make no mistake it is a stat stick. Classes that benefit from the stats and raw damage of the weapon should have priority. That’s not bias against hunters. It’s what is best for the raid.

Quick Strike is a tougher one. Some guilds give melee priority. Others treat all physical dps the same in terms of priority.

As for the rest of the post about the whispers and whatnot, yeah that sucks. But given some of the exchanges in this thread alone, I can’t shake the feeling that there is more to this story.

[anon3563431]

@Aru - You posted with a good attitude and a willingness to seek fairness in your conclusions for both sides. I respect that. I don’t have to be right all the time. I am willing to concede my position if someone has merit to theirs, shows respect, and is not belligerent with selfishness.

While I must side with the math I have done, since facts trump feelings, I do understand and somewhat validate the feeling of prejudicial control that guild leaders have toward loot dispersal in a raid, even one including PUGs. My opposition is more reality based than the ideal, though. A raid is PvE. Alliance on many PvP servers learned the consequence of ignoring PvP to devote their time entirely to farming PvE gear. Alliance got PvP farmed otw to loot locations. Horde farmed alliance. Alliance farmed loot. You see the problem? So, the ring is PvP & PvE BiS for all physical DPS classes. Hunter can equip a different set of gear to be slightly less effective. I don’t know about warriors and rogues. I haven’t studied those class options. However, the important thing to note is that every hunter denied Quick Strike Ring is denied their PvP BiS and must raid with blue rings the required a slightly different gear combination.

This is partly why Striker’s Mark is preferable in a raid. It is not just the weapon vs weapon comparison. Other gear options allow for greater DPS potential. The fact is that <AXIS>, at that time, made every loot dispersal decision with the idea that a hunter is always the one who must sacrifice BiS, so other favored classes may attain BiS faster.

They can conduct their guild however they want. It is their choice 100%. It is not my place to defy their rule of their guild. I wasn’t told about it prior to joining, which felt offensive, but I still respectfully left quietly, only to have several begin the harassing behavior. It was immaturity, inexperience, idiocy, or something. I know. I could disregard it for a few days, but having gone on for over month by two of them, one prominent in the guild, incited this thread.

We can argue endlessly about BiS. It happens in guides that allow comments. The important thing is that, at the end of the day, we don’t obsess about the conflict and allow it to fester animosity and impulse disrespectful behavior.