The Awful Horde Narrative

Hello, Blizzard Employee I am about to link this thread to on Twitter. I am going to be incredibly critical of your company’s work on the Horde’s narrative since Legion. The intent is not to insult you, but to make a sincere, collaborative attempt to improve the story. Whatever moral-greyness or faction pride Blizzard has hoped to deliver in Battle for Azeroth - they’ve absolutely failed for the first five months. This isn’t a book. No one can expect people to wait months for the possibility of some twist that reframes the events of the story in a positive light. You have to make the story enjoyable in every patch.

~
All members of the Horde are equal in my eyes, <name>. We have all suffered many burdens, and if it were not for wisdom and honor, then we would be no better than the Scourge or my people while our blood was tainted by the demon Mannoroth.

It is your duty to aid the Horde and to defend our way of life. But it is also your duty to know when quarter and compassion should be given to friend and foe alike.

Understand this well. This is the new Horde, not some demon-spawned army who lack freewill. - Thrall

When I started playing WoW in Vanilla, I picked the Horde because of its identity that emerged from Warcraft 3. Unlike most fantasy franchises that depicted monstrous races like Orcs, Trolls, and Minotaurs as irredeemably evil or stupid, Blizzard decided to adopt an egalitarian message that treated these races as having the same capacity for thought and emotion as your conventional “hero” races like Humans and Elves.

This allowed the faction narrative to shift from a clear Good vs Evil dichotomy of WC1/2 to a faction relationship defined by a conflict of interest between two groups with a heroic legacy (defeating the Legion/Scourge) and understandable goals (defense of one’s own family, nation, and the planet at large). In Vanilla, both sides largely had similar concepts of morality, and were at war only for territory, resources, and global influence. I thought this was a great idea, as it allowed for more complexity, nuance, and depth within the faction conflict than “good people trying to save themselves from bad people.”

(Obviously, both factions (mostly the Horde) still had dark, villainous characters - such as the Forsaken. There were quests to torture noncombatants, terrorize innocents, and develop a plague capable of eradicating life on Azeroth. BUT THAT WAS OPTIONAL CONTENT, and not the forefront of the either faction’s narrative or identity. It was in quests you did not have to do to level or progress your character.

This was okay. The Horde was primarily a visually/culturally aggressive and savage faction, but with laudable goals and morally-sound virtues. The gleefully evil stuff was covert and optional.)

And millions of people have paid Blizzard to keep it this way. Due to WoW’s subscription model, players pay the company in advance to develop content for them later. Like me, many people liked the Horde’s identity we were advertised in WC3-Wrath and we subscribed for the development of that faction. Should the developers ever change or injure that identity, it would feel like a massive betrayal of our trust and a massive waste in literally thousands of dollars spent on this game.

Yet, that’s what happened. The story has inverted the Horde’s relationship between their morally best and worst elements. “Evil” characters and groups now have authority and influence over the “good” ones. Despite millions of players liking the Horde’s “Noble Savage” identity from WC3-Wrath, your writing team decided to push Sylvanas to the forefront, and make the PC complicit in the genocide of nearly an entire civilization, tolerate the blighting and raising both Horde and Alliance soldiers, and actively inflict the curse of undeath onto enemy soldiers for Sylvanas’ army. Outside of the PC, we also see needless acts of cruelty throughout BFA, such as Horde troops killing civilians. This is not in line with the cultural or moral values of most characters and races within the Horde.

If the Alliance was an existential threat like the Legion or Old Gods - these actions might be defensible. But they’re not. (Regrettably, Anduin would be better a Warchief than Sylvanas, because, like Thrall or Vol’jin, he has a sincere notion of the inherent value of life, and Sylvanas admittedly doesn’t care about the Horde on several occasions and, as of BTS, thinks being undead is better than being alive. She would probably kill us all if we ever outgrew our military usefulness.)

Simply put - we’ve relapsed into a contrived Good vs Evil dichotomy, all because the Horde lost its moral fiber at the behest of an unapologetically evil and world-threateningly insane leader and her agenda. (She didn’t even care that the planet was dying from Sargeras’ sword in Before the Storm. That’s how cartoonishly evil Sylvanas is.) The Horde has simply become nonvocal, hypocritical, cowardly, inept, and/or ignorant henchmen to a leader that’s antithetical to their espoused values.

I love faction conflict, but this isn’t working. In my opinion, the Horde needs more reason to participate in this war than a notion of morality derived from severe in-group loyalty, and it wouldn’t hurt if the Alliance wasn’t near-consistently portrayed has so suffocatingly good either. I hope y’all engage more with the community and try to figure out the best way to proceed because I’ve lost faith that this company is making good decisions.

Thank you for reading,

Yag.

71 Likes

As much as Sylvanas is being hated by the Horde now for her rash decisions, the Alliance have their own problems with Tyrande being rebellious and controlling Varians son.

Horde has a wreckless, bloodthirsty leader.
Alliance have a lot of internal conflicts and issues.

1 Like

I don’t think the Alliance’s conflicts reflect at all. So what Tyrande got upset because Anduin couldn’t send troops to help her out, big deal. Sylvanas has kind of been ruined as a character, and we the Horde players, are getting nothing for it. We’re basically replaying MoP and WoD all over again where the Horde has to kill their own leaders because they did something out of character and are now super evil.

Yet another expansion dedicated to the Alliance.

EDIT: One more thing, I’d just like to ask if I don’t play WoW for the story and I don’t play it for the loot/mounts/pets because we are flush with those and I don’t play it for the community because it’s dying, then why do I play WoW?

8 Likes

This is pretty spot on. I felt like Thrall’s, Vol’jins and even Garrosh’s horde (before he went batsh*t) wasn’t “good” but had decent moral values and knew when to do things based on necessity.
You could play as a forsaken and successfully RP as an “evil horde character” back when those leaders were there.

Now you just don’t really have the choice and you’re forced to commit horrible atrocities following a genocidal undead maniac.
And Blizzard throws in the Saurfang quest to make ourselves feel better about ourselves, but really all the damage has already been done and your character was directly involved in a genocide and many massacres/destructions.

So it doesn’t even feel like there’s redemption because at least when Garrosh was in power, you didn’t take his side during his cray cray phase.

20 Likes

The Horde has never been “morally-sound.” Orcs are genetically predisposed to murder and Trolls have an ingrained cultural love for pillaging Human and Elf civilization.

7 Likes

This is why the Alliance needs a firm hand to take the wheel, like General Hammond Clay.

1 Like

Newp.

Consider that the Darkspear had been minding their own business on their own island home before the Kul Tirans and Naga forced them off.

Also, think about the lead Horde characters in Classic. Cairne and Vol’jin never did no wrong to anybody and the primary Orc characters were Rexxar (voluntarily left the Old Horde because it was evil), Eitrigg (befriended Turalyon, which exhibited his value of life regardless of race), Saurfang (co-led a joint faction effort to defeat C’thuun), and Thrall (who said this:).

All members of the Horde are equal in my eyes, <name>. We have all suffered many burdens, and if it were not for wisdom and honor, then we would be no better than the Scourge or my people while our blood was tainted by the demon Mannoroth.

It is your duty to aid the Horde and to defend our way of life. But it is also your duty to know when quarter and compassion should be given to friend and foe alike.

Understand this well. This is the new Horde, not some demon-spawned army who lack freewill.

The Horde was marketed as turning a page from their demonic WC1/2 incarnation.

23 Likes

I think Blizzard needs to stop making the Horde have to destroy themselves over and over, it’s getting clichéd and it would be nice to see the other faction do pretty evil things themselves.

But we’re back to square one where Horde are the evil bad guys, and Alliance and bunch of halo wearing good guys again.

Didn’t the Alliance attack an unarmed ship in cata forcing the Goblins to survive in harsh climates to be adopted by the Horde? Then their assaulters got punished by Thrall raining lightning on their heads using you?

10 Likes

The issue here is that Warcraft and Warcraft II’s marketing set the grand narrative down first. Decades of “development” (read: retcons) will never change the themes and tropes originally established for the IP because they’re baked-in in ways that go beyond simple quest lore.

1 Like

The re-write of Sylvanas’ history and character to make her into Garrosh 2.0 has been one of the most infuriating things for me to witness with this expansion. Since Vanilla she has been a cold and calculating leader (lawful evil for DnD people) who decided she had to live after commiting suicide because she needed to save her people which got extended to the whole Horde when she became Warchief, but now she is ruled by her emotions (Chaotic Evil).

Blizzard forced a good vs evil narrative on us with Horde being the “bad guys”. On the Horde side, your quests are things like “Kill/poison the city gaurds before we attack.” On the alliance side, “Horde have killed everyone including civilians”. It’s blatant and tiresome what they are doing to the story, which includes rewriting the past storylines.

11 Likes

or maybe you should just accept your destiny, the horde always has been evil, even in wc3 when they escaped to kalimdor killed tons of innocent people to steal their ships, they drinked the blood of mannoroth again and killed a protector of the world and then doing worse in vainilla with the forsakens.

just accept now that the horde only serves the lich queen and her plan to end all life.
The horde is worse than the scourge. this isn’t a high fantasy anymore, not for the horde at least.

4 Likes

I would say WC3, Rise of the Horde, Lord of the Clans, and Vanilla effectively retconned and re-characterized the early RTS Orcs.

The first two RTS games are not canon, with only some elements surviving. Plus, the Orcs were revealed to have been under the influence of magic, which made them more awful than they actually are.

Blizzard bent over backwards to destroy the Good vs Evil dichotomy between the Alliance and Horde from WC1/2.

5 Likes

They’re the only canon that matters to real Warcraft fans.

3 Likes

Well World of Retcon killed most of those stories off, or changed them in some way. If WoW2 ever comes out, most of the things we are doing now will be changed, making years of work feel worthless, lol.

There are some basic tenets of storytelling that seem to have gotten lost in the narrative-by-committee that has come out of this xpac.

Every villain should be the hero of their own story. If that story is accessible to the readers on some level, reasonably, emotionally, conceptually, they will identify with that story in some way.

And that is super important when the reader doesn’t have the option of just skipping the parts they don’t like, when they are forced to participate in the content… because its the content.

Look at the way Infinity Wars’ Thanos was written, look at the way Ledger’s Joker was written.

We don’t have to like them, but their story is compelling and their portrayal works to bring us closer to their side of the plot. They are relatable and feel as real as the heroes, maybe even more so to some.

When the impetus of a villain is because they are CcCrRAAzYYy whoOOooO… that’s some lazy storytelling right there. And I feel like that’s where we are. I can’t even imagine how to pull the current briarpatch back into narrative shape.

Good luck story team… maybe a damage control team might be a good investment.

7 Likes

Then I hope you Allies stop saying Blizzard caters to us then if you have that belief.

4 Likes

#notallorcs

In WC3 there were conflicting interests within the Horde but ultimately it was Warchief Thrall who would set the tone for who the orcs could potentially be in WoW, not bloodthirsty Grom who later sacrificed himself in order to atone for bringing the fel into their culture in the first place. You can still be bloodthirsty mindless orc if you want to RP that way but that doesn’t mean that you represent the Horde as a whole.

8 Likes

Can’t agree more.

But as someone that plays both stories, the Alliance’s story didn’t get any better either. Jaina’s story lacks hard, reads like a Lifetime Movie mini series.

I know I’m just one foot in the grave with this game. The story is horribly boring. :rainbow:

5 Likes

Part of the reason i am waiting for my sub timer to run out is because i don’t like this faction war bs story.

I have rolled my eyes and facepalmed more times this expac then i have for any other game in my 30 years of being alive.

I see a faction war being a worthless story line. This entire expacs story is a rehash of mists/wod. Sylvie is just another gary 2.0.

I have almost daily spit on and slapped the npcs. And verbally berrated them and any gms that might be watching during almost every story chain.

We have far bigger threats to azeroth then each other and are wasting time on a faction war.

7 Likes

The only canon that’s not really canon. Okay. And get this “real fan” nonsense out of here. WC3 defined WoW, WC1 + WC2 have been retconned to hell and back.

11 Likes