The Arathi Tonal Disconnect

My take is being separated from the Empire and being desperate given the Nerubian attacks and Beledar going into a void phase every so often has led them to tolerate outsiders for now.

I actually do love the concept of the Nathrezim jumping from one evil force to another endlessly, always looking for the next big bad to serve. Like a less silly version of the Minions.

Way better than “they were working with the Jailer the entire time.” Dreadlords just go where the money’s at. :sunglasses:

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As much as i kind of like the story from a personal perspective my lore is all messed up because i’m doing it as an orc. I mean, maybe I might find honor in helping humans with their customs but I keeping feeling like my Orc would want to put Orcish people and Orcish problems and Horde problems FIRST.
I cant help but feel, isn’t there Orc orphans to rescue or troll meals to cook? Like, if i played alliance this would be like, a 9/10 story, but i feel disconnected as a horde fan.

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Steelstrike says she put down rebellions in provinces in the Empire.

I think this is largely a case of the Arathi we meet being in a desperate situation in need of help and we are helping them so they are playing nice. The actual Empire based on every thing we know is a bad place.

I still feel like the xenophobia is being over hyped. All I’ve seen so far is “some people would call you outsider”.

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That is my main point in the thread. Excluding what Faerin says, we rarely see any evidence that the Arathi are zealots. If Blizzard intends to make the Empire “villainous” down the line, then they will create such a tonal clash.

Many say the Hollowfall Arathi are accepting of others due to their current circumstance, but I’m saying that is not the case. The Arathi didn’t become “tolerant”, they came from an open-minded empire. They have rooted cultural and religious reasons to believe what they do.

  • Faerin preaches to Anduin the importance of being non-judgmental and practicing self-forgiveness.

  • Lamplighter Kaeter states his faith calls him to help all in need regardless of race.

  • Liadrin’s conversation and the one “joke” tome on Arathi magic show that their belief system is deeply philosophical and their understanding of magic is nuanced.

  • Sister Etna Blaze expresses that the priory was a place of contemplation and the Prioress’ hostility and use of dark magic is heretical. Blaze explicitly refers to them as zealots. This is huge because the faction that is departing from Arathi Orthodoxy is not the Arathi, but the priory.

There is no indication based on the actions of the Hollowfall Arathi that they are breaking cultural norms or are in “reformation”. They actively seek to reunite with the Empire and champion its cause. Most individuals were born in the Empire and still have family/friends back home. The Empire isn’t a distant cultural memory, there are tangible connections.

If the Empire is drastically different from the Hollowfall Arathi then the story comes out very disjointed.

To be perfectly honest a lot of it from me personally is just wishful thinking. I think a fanatical empire of "deus vult"ing light zealots would be a lot of fun. Fill a similar niche the Scarlet Crusade did but not incompetent nor constrained by the previously established lore of the Eastern Kingdoms. Could be an entire continent of goose stepping hyper crusaders trying to forcibly convert the other races.

Be a good opportunity to expand on what the light means to the different playable races, while also feeling like a win for both the Alliance and the Horde helping out the downtrodden and fighting the oppressors.

Obviously lotta holes there to fill in but if the “light bad” story is coming, I think having an expansion to expand less on what the light actually is and instead what it means to the individual races would be a good counterweight to, supposedly, the villainous Arathi Empire wielding the light to their own nefarious ends. Right now the light seems kind of pigeonholed to just being a cosmic force that gives good vibes.

The empire does seem to have a policy of shooting first and asking questions later when it comes to people who use fel, shadow, and death magics. …But being fair most people should given what those magics do to people and the world in general.

I did sort of get the vibe they might be somewhat racist, though. Particularly to the races of the horde. Humans, Dwarves/Earthen (depending on titanforged-arathi relations), and high/blood elves likely would be fine at least. Everyone else might get a very Garithos like reaction.

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It’s what’s got me excited about fighting them, its a villain the horde can actually personally care about, and not one who we are forced to fight cause the world might blow up, or cause they hurt someone on the alliance’s feelings

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My guess being we could see the Arathi Empire on the other side of Azeroth and they could be a major threat to the world at large with the Arathi in Hallowfall joining the Alliance or Horde against the New Threat of Light Zealots of a holy emperor.

Lamplighters aren’t actually an Arathi Empire creation, they were founded as a group in Hallowfall after the first Day of Darkness. So their ethos and methods are likely at odds with what the majority of imperial Lightwielders are like. It’s why we don’t see any Lamplighters in the Priory, for example.

My theory is that the expedition, leadership wise, was made up of people who were talented but politically unpopular in the Empire, except for the Prioress, who was likely given the task of finding immortality in the Light, and bringing it back to the Emperor. A big final battle with the nerubians, with the rest of Hallowfall being wiped out but the Prioress and her core group escaping with that secret. Except that vision never happened because the champion (us) is essentially a prophecy monkey wrench, as we’ve seen in other xpacs.

So what we’re encountering is a group of people largely already primed to be more flexible in their thinking, after many years of needing all the help they can get to survive. These are people with a mandate, a command, and so they’ll do anything to carry that out and fulfill the prophecy they were sent on. Since we’re actively helping them with that, and since every outsider they’ve met aside from the korbyss and nerubians have been willing to work with them, them being more friendly makes sense.

When we encounter the Empire proper, it’ll be a different story, likely. Not just because of zealotry or xenophobia, but for the more ‘practical’ reasons of conquest and territory. But it will also not be a monolith, since we have a few mentions of uprisings and annexations in the lore we’ve gotten already.

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Truth is there was no reason to create a new human empire out of nowhere just because the Devs love humans to an unhealthy degree.

The new Arathi Empire is at least INTERESTING. Or at least has the potential to be. The ones we met so far are pretty cool though

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I get that the Lamplighters are a new organization, but as the name implies, they carry the light of the Empire (figuratively and literally). Since tradition is important to the Arathi it would make sense, though newly formed, the Lamplighters would spread their traditional faith. They essentially serve as a reminder of the Empire to all in Hollowfall.

I would bet the Lamplighters aren’t that different in their faith when compared to the priory. We know Sister Etna Blaze condemns what happens there as heretical. She also calls the Prioress and her compatriots zealots. The interesting part is that Blaze’s comments establish the peaceful ethos of the priory as the orthodox belief. That aligns well with what the Lamplighter’s represent.

Although it is totally possible that the expedition was part of some grander conspiracy. And only a select few were told of its true nature. That could account for why most Arathi are different as the outliers were all shipped away together. Yet, they seem genuinely loyal to the Empire and willing to serve in their mission. There would have to be some mass deception going on.

It is still very possible like you said. A politically exiled faction could make for a neat story. Although, I imagine we would have gotten more information about this deception during questing. I like the theory, but Im not sure that is what Blizzard was going for.

Unless I missed a quest, we don’t get much background on the Prioress, right? Some of those serving under her due so out of fear/despair, but there is little to the Prioress’ motivation (other than making the Empire proud).

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Good thing it is not a human empire but a half elven one.

Or do you think Elves are humans now?

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Seems plenty healthy to me.

What does the underground or spiders or Naaru crystals got to do with humans?

Well the underground is where some half-elves are. So I don’t know with that one.
Humans and spiders are enemies, generally.
Naaru crystals, nothing as far as I know.

Talking about Beledar.

My dude they can’t be half elves after thousands of years. When half elves marry each other they are quarter elves at best.

No apparent connection.

They look like half elves to me. Pointed ears and everything. Why wouldn’t two half elves have half elf children?