The Amani Trolls are the most justified race in game

They are multiplying now.

Or it’s just one person alt hopping and responding to their own posts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2q0T7QXETs

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No Erevien is my only character.

I was just joking. :+1:

I mean they aren’t really colonizers though. They’re refugees, they’re migratory. It’s less the scramble for Africa and more akin to the German and steppe tribes migrating further and further into Europe due to increasingly hostile environments or being forced out of their lands by bigger stronger tribes. This topic gets brought up again and again and people always treat it as this black and white situation when it’s really a very complicated issue.

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They chose to leave Kalimdor after violating the laws set up by Malfurion. The Amani had no obligation to give them land. Much similar to european lands now setting up border control again to limit the tide of people coming over from Africa and the middle east. Just because you are poor doesn’t mean wealthy people are entitled to aid you.

You are absolutely right in what you say. The trolls were not obliged to just give the high elves some land to live on. That was not a point I was arguing though. The point is that the situation is complicated. No side is fully in the right or wrong.

I know I’m not as knowledgeable in the lore as some people on these forums, but my my understanding Malfurion told Dath’remar and his followers to stop using magic or get out. For better or worse magic a core part of highborne identity and they did not give it up, so they had little choice but to leave. They settled in what would become Lorderon, and the land was so hostile to them due to old god influences that it literally drove them insane. They could not stay there, they had to find yet another new home. They are literally double refugees. I’m not saying it was right of them to push deeper into troll land once they found out the land was inhabited. It’s just complicated situation, that’s all.

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Basically this.

People want to try to boil this down to colonizing, but colonizing is when you’re taking land/resources for an existing nation/empire. That may not be the definition, but it’s what is done in practice. The nation/empire that the colonizers come from are often sending them to these lands so they can gain political control for their home nation, along with control over that regions resources to benefit the home nation.

That’s why, when we think of colonizing, we think of the British, French, Spanish and American Empires. We think of Rome and their expansion into Gaul, Britain and Germania. These were established nations/empires already who just wanted more, and so they took land from native peoples, established new settlements/colonies, all so they could gain political control and control over that nations resources.

We don’t associate colonizing with refugee migrations, the movement of people who have no home and are not attempting to expand the power of existing empires, that’s what the Elves were, refugees, forced from their home because they refused to abandon what made them who they were. That’s what the nascent humans were, refugees forced to live far from where their ancestors hailed from, because if they had stayed they would have been executed.

The Trolls were not obligated to give either of them land, but to argue that what they did was colonizing is a bit much.

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The Shen’Drelar sealed themselves off in Diremaul and practized magic with no night elf intervention just fine. Serveral Vrykul tribes broke off and settled on unclaimed islands far away from King Ymiron. But no, for some reasons the humans and elves had to go to Lordaeron and fight the trolls who had already established a nation on their own which spanned the northern continent. Tell me what this is if not colonizing.

And?

None of what you just said changes the fact that the Elves and the nascent humans were refugees. Refugees are not colonizers, they’re not setting up colonies to expand their people’s already existing influence/power.

This argument you’re making is stupid Erevien. Take a step back and think.

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They settle in land that already had Vrykul in them. Tirisfal was already Vrkyul land long before the trolls even had empires!

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https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/wowpedia/images/3/3b/Kalimdor_Chronicle.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1000?cb=20180325104337

Point to the map please where that seems to be possible.

So are the Orcs refugees too? Afterall Draenor was dead and the ytried to escape. Literally Doomhammer thought to keep Stormwind after taking it and not attack the humans again only breaking the idea off when he realized Lothat would return with reinforcements.

Obviously not.

Stop making stupid arguments.

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I mean, yeah? Duh? But there’s a difference between waging a war of conquest and being outcast from your home trying to find a new place to live. The orcs were also the ones who started the conflict so it really has nothing in common with the high elves at all.

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So did the elves and humans. If the High elves had stayed in Tirisfal none of this would have happened. But nope they settled on a Amani burial site instead. They were literally asking to be attacked. And I am sicke and tired of the narrative where poc coded races get painted as being in the wrong against the medieval european cultures mostly humans.

Here we go again with the double standard.

You know that map is AFTER the humans landed in Tirisfal? Which means said map is probably inaccurate/a map from the trolls perspective. (in the same vein that the elemental chart is from the Titan’s prespective)

Similarly,while we would consider all of Darkshore night elf territory technically that is not case consider there are trolls living there.

So you are ok with the night elves attacking the Horde and trying to drive them out of Ashenvale? Good to know.

Exactly. The Orcs were not refugees in the slightest. They didn’t come through the Dark Portal looking for a new home, they came through the Dark Portal looking to conquer and slay, and they did. They waged a war of aggression against the Humans of Stormwind and then against the other kingdoms that were between them and Lordaeron. At no point did the bulk of the Horde attempt to settle or create homes, only one Clan did and that was the Frostwolves who were exiled from the Horde by Gul’dan.

The Trolls literally attacked them first, while they were in Tirisfal.

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Alliance are white people. Horde are steppe and native cultures. Now take a guess whom of them gets villainized. Blizzard has a bias and it needs to stop.