But even this point is not uncontested, because they still live where they lived 16000 years ago, Zul’Aman was not taken from them, even the ruin the High Elves took for themselves was abandoned and was highly honored/blessed by the amani, but thats nothing the high elf could know.
Why? Why should that be not well considered?? You do know that the epoch between the war against the High Elves 6800 years ago and the great Troll War 2800 years ago was 4000 years?
Ergo 100 generations in 4000 Years. That’s an extremely long time to hold a grudge, it’s just too nonsensical to hold a grudge for that long.
The usual troll lives no longer then a human lifespan, the only expection was the zandalari king which lived vor something over 200 years.
Feels like this thread can already be boiled down to “I want to criticize the way the writing chose to portray these bad guys” VS “no because they’re bad guys”.
Do you see anyone here complaining that Sartyrs and Naga’s are evil? Or felOrcs, or Demonic Draeneis (except for the lore nonsense with the single Mana’ri playable nonsense)
Why is it a problem with trolls when there is a clear difference between the playable trolls and the non-playable
Because it’s a design issue. It isn’t just because Forest Trolls are evil, it’s why they are evil, and the reasonings that go into that design, whether intentional or not.
But not all forest-Trolls are evil, only the amani are, the same logic applies to the gurubashi and darkspear, The gurubashi are evil, and the reason for the amani to be considered evil is easy to understand, thats not an designissue, thats an you issue, you want them to be victims, but the foresttrolls are more then the Amani.
The elves didn´t reach out to kill all forest trolls in existence, but the elves fought against the amani, again and again, this solidified their hatred toward them, and only them.
Yes, I think its fair to criticize the writing the Amani have received. I even said so in my first post in this thread. However, the OP continues to bring up words which categorically do not fit the narrative he is presenting. ‘Colonized.’ ‘Displaced.’ These are factually incorrect terms to apply to the Amani.
It’s one thing to criticize the writing, and another to misrepresent what is there.
To say, “I think it would be more interesting if the Amani were colonized and displaced by the High Elves,” would be an opinion, but to say, “The Amani were colonized and displaced by the High Elves,” is not factual at all.
How the discussion is phrased is important to a conducive discussion.
Trolls are not real, any crossing of elements is certainly a clear inspiration of the authors of real-life elements and yet trolls are not real and we should not even think of looking at it that way, because elves are not real either and elves do not stand for Europe’s Powers colonialism
I feel like people don’t really understand how ridiculously long 4000 years is. That’s how long the high elves lived in peace in Quel’thalas behind their little magical shield the Amani couldn’t get through until the troll wars.
That’s so far back it’s the middle of the freaking Bronze Age IRL. Imagine people trying to reclaim land and wipe out the current inhabitants because their Bronze Age ancestors once had claim to it. It’s utterly ridiculous.
Anyone comparing the Amani to the “I” side of the “conflict” is mistaken since in that case the current inhabitants aren’t the exact same people who stole the land and are still alive, and the people on that side claiming to be indigenous are actually from a whole different continent.
There are minor differences, yes, but overall it’s still a group trying to reclaim land and wipe out the inhabitants based on claims from thousands of years ago.
the Amani have dug their own graves and pushed away anyone who would have sympathized with them at the geopolitical scale, the only way out of those graves is for them to swallow their damned pride and join the Horde.
which would make them allied with Quel’thalas
anything less will result in the tribe’s extinction
One of the things I don’t like about WOW writing is that they have characters who are willing to consider entire races as “evil”. But there is little push back in the writing against such a racist context.
Part of the problem is, some races are actually written to be, “evil.”
It’s all a matter of perspective. In this thread, we’re discussing Amani grievances with the High Elves. Blood Elves are a playable race, and Amani were playable in WC2. It’s easy to take the perspective of both sides.
Contrast this to, say, races like harpies, or quilboar. These are races the Horde displaced as they established Orgrimmar, and then continued to displace them as they colonized other parts of the continent. We don’t ever stop and think, “Wow, the poor quilboar and harpies are victims of the Orcish colonialists.” These races are portrayed to us as evil by nature. They take delight in tormenting the races we play as. For most players, they don’t stop and think about them as victims, they just see them as an obstacle the world would be vastly improved without.
We’ve never been able to play quilboar or harpies, so that matter of perspective is rarely discussed in their defense.
I’ve said it before but the best way to handle this would be to make the Revantusk the new Zandalari backed leader of the Forest Trolls with a seat of power in Jintha’Alor.
Then if we revisit Zul’Aman have it be the Revantusk leading the siege with Darkspear and Zandalari backing. The Sin’Dorei have already worked out an agreement with the Golden Throne of Zandalar that the Revantusk signed on to. And Zul’Aman is basically just a fortress of hardline lunatics at this point the Trolls aren’t going to put up with.
That’d be a cool way to justify Forest Troll customization options, add in a lower c Horde capitol to the EK in the Hinterlands and resolve that story in a way that’ll hopefully rescue us from too much elf content in Midnight.
Plus with all the Troll violence you know Bwomsamdi would have to turn up and who doesn’t love seeing more of him?
Depends if you synonymize “Amani” with “Zul’jin,” because Zul’jin might be the most overrated character in the lore. Guy ended every battle he ever fought in a cage, hid in his ziggurat while the Scourge defiled and annihilated his land, enslaved his own gods for no gain, then died to a guy called Budd Nedreck (later retconned into “died to the Horde.”)
I do kind of respect the Amani’s determination to convert their tribe into bloody gristle over a 7,000-year-old land dispute, but now Quel’Thalas counts the Darkspear, the Revantusk, and the Zandalari Empire among its allies, it might be time to change tactics. Total elf extermination hasn’t worked out so well.