The Amani are worthy of respect

Lore Story Forum
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There’s already two threads full of people citing their opinions on the Forest Trolls, also known as the Amani. Though, I think those threads are drawn out and don’t really address the heart of the issue: The Amani, whether on purpose or not, has become symbolic of something much grander in scope of many other stories in Warcraft due to connecting to real world issues.

So I will be starting out by laying the groundwork. First things first: Who are the Forest Trolls and why do they matter?

The Trolls are some of the first peoples of Azeroth, indigenous, you might even say. They laid out many great empires, but two are the most important to look back on: The Amani Empire, based around the city of Zul’aman in what we would know as in the north of the Eastern Kingdoms. We can say for certain that they have been in this region for a long time, and had a complex history of exchanges with the other contemporary polities.

The other “Troll” empire in question actually is a bit more strange to explain, because I will be mentioning the Dark Trolls. Many who are familiar with Warcraft lore likely already knows about these guys, but to those who don’t: Dark Trolls are cousins to the Forest trolls, living far to the west, and lived a nocturnal lifestyle as opposed to those of most other trolls.

They are the progenitors of the Night Elves, and over time, these creatures would undergo many events and changes, even down to the structure of the world. Changing the very continents, dividing them apart from what used to be a singular landmass. Eventually, their descendants would become forsaken by their kin, and would seek another home.

They would come to the homeland of the Forest Trolls, by incident (as far as we know), and would claim it as their home. The Amani retaliated, and conflict that would lasts a thousand years came about.

Say what you want about it, but I think it’s clear that the Amani are colonized peoples, as land that is historically belonged to them are taken from them, despite continued resistance and attempts at reclamation. Yet, even with my opinion on the subject finally laid out like that, I think it’s fair to say that it’s going to be difficult writing them going forward.

In the past they’ve been depicted as unsympathetic villains, as evil, or as unworthy of recognition. Whatever they do with them in the future, I just hope they fully realize this, to at the very least see to it that the Amani are given that recognition.

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Uhm, you know that not every Forest troll is an Amani, right? Right??

Except, the Amani do not originate from Lordaeron, they originate from Zandalar and migrated to Lordaeron in the final phase of the Aqir-Troll War to destroy remnants of the Aqir Empire.

This really did not warrant a third thread.

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Depends on what you mean.
Last I remember, Forest Troll and Amani are terms that are interchangeable to some extent. I do know there is a tribe that is centered around Zul’aman however.

It’s not exactly the same subject in my opinion, as it’s focusing on the idea that they are worthy of being treated with respect, like any of the player races often are.

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I agree. the Amani are by far the very best of the trolls compared to any other tribe that exists. I want them to win for once.

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The Amani are sort of like the imperial tribe so to speak, They were the ones that conquered and organized the other forest troll tribes into the empire with their name. As their empire has decayed they have lost their grip on the other forest trolls, which now kinda do their own thing.

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Respect, sure? I guess, this is nothing someone denied here.

the reason why this topic comes up again and again is that this conflict is some of the few remaininng “grey conflict”

If amani are colonized or not depends highly how you view the High elves because technically, they were no kingdom, no gouverment of an foreign country, they were refugees and the amani fought against them and lost this war and lost a bunch of their land.

The thing which escalated the relationship and poisened the well so to speak was not the conquest of Quel`Thalas but the great troll war. Which had nothing short of an genocid as aim, The Amani tried to wipe out the High elves, and after they lost, the human and elves hated them and didn´t want them to gain strength again, out of fear.

So should the Amani be shown respect as People? Sure.

Should the thalassian elves loose their land? Nop, because in the end, the high elves paid a heavy price for it in two bloody and great wars and all of them were started by the amani, so they lost their landclaim by doing so.

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Hopefully it’s just a civil conflict among the Amani, their loa fusion technique still rocks. :love_you_gesture::robot:

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Why? Nothing shows they are evil.

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Besides Malacrass. :robot::sweat_drops:

Rumored to be the most feared witch doctor of the Amani tribe in decades, Hex Lord Malacrass has done the unthinkable and sealed the essences of several mighty troll animal gods in their strongest champions … keeping the darkest one for himself.

Although i’m looking at it as the cool potential with us defending new temples for the unknown loa, opportunity to fuse with a phoenix, and a story fit for Vol’jin’s return. :memo::robot:

edit: Particularly Vol’jin’s return as he’s fused to a Loa. :t_rex:

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Desperation sure but not evil. At least they didn’t kill their Loa like the Drakkari did

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When the word, “Colonize,” in its various forms is thrown around in regards to the Amani-Thalassian conflict, I tend to find the subject has veered off of any attempt at legitimate discourse, and has embraced sensationalism.

The Amani are not a colonized people, for quite a few reasons.

To begin with, the High Elves are not colonizers. They weren’t setting up a colony for their empire in some remote region of the world. The exiled Highborne were refugees, seeking to establish a home for themselves. They accomplished this by finding ideal land that was neither inhabited nor in use, nor in any way, shape, or form marked as such.

Secondly, no Forest Trolls were displaced by the establishment of Quel’Thalas. The High Elves themselves weren’t even shown to be particularly expansionist. In all their history, Quel’Thalas was all they had. They didn’t go around setting up colonies elsewhere in the world. The closest they have to a second territory is Dalaran, which isn’t even their territory, but one they assisted in establishing and protecting.

The Amani aren’t victims of colonization. Arguably they themselves are colonizers, displacing the local population of Aqir (or Nerubians, or whichever group dwelt in that part of ancient Kalimdor at the time), when they settled their own empire to begin with.

I’d also argue that the Amani aren’t worthy of respect, but of pity, in a meta-sense.

Unlike the Horde, the Amani never got the redemption arc. WC2 was a very by-the-trope story where the monster races were evil and cruel and vicious, and the pretty races were honorable and good and victims. WC3 changed that, showing us the Horde as a band of honorable savages, a brotherhood of the outcast and misunderstood banding together in a world that hated it for, honestly, legitimate reasons that the Horde then proved were no longer legitimate through action.

The Amani never got that though. When Blizzard finally got around to introducing the Amani to the setting, they doubled down on the WC2 identity. Then again in Cataclysm. Then again in MoP. Even in BFA we still have that identity holding strong.

I think its absolutely fair to pity the Amani for having received the short-end of the narrative stick when many other elements of the original Horde got to become more than two-dimensional cardboard cutouts.

I don’t think there is anything about them right now that is worthy of respect. They started a conflict they lost on multiple occasions, created a culture of hate and prejudice, and have continued to follow that culture to their literal graves.

Maybe Midnight will finally show some change. Maybe they’ll finally get a chance to be freed from the mire of WC2 characterization. I think that’s certainly something to hope for, even if we’ve seen no indication from Blizzard that they intend to change the Amani.

Right now though? I can’t say they’re worthy of respect. Hatred and prejudice, regardless of justification, are not qualities worthy of respect, and that is ALL their culture has going for them right now, because Blizzard never wrote any other culture for them.

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Yeah, youngsters nowadays turn every specific term into a cheap sensational buzzword to throw around everywhere.

Cambridge dictionary definition of “colony” and “colonization”:

A country or area controlled politically by a more powerful country that is often far away.

The act or process of sending people to live in and govern another country.

This is quite clearly not applicable to the Elf-Troll conflict.

  1. The High Elves were not part of a powerful country, but refugees of a destroyed country. Furthermore, the trolls were in a more advantageous position and had stronger military power than the high elves, therefore it cannot be colonization. A weaker people cannot colonie a stronger people, that is impossible.

  2. The High Elves weren’t sent by someone to take over foreign lands, and they had no interested in controlling Zul Aman, as evidenced by the fact that they never tried to conquer Zul Aman despite winning in both the Troll Wars and Second War. Their only stated objective was to attain the ley-lanes nexus crucial for their survival. Anything else is worthless fan-fiction and nothing more.

Words have meaning, people.

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Not too sure about desperate with their plan to attack the elves. Again. :robot::thought_balloon:

…for being rivals to the blood elves, I still pity they haven’t actually made any damage but are instead invaded. Especially compared to the ruins the Scourge left. :robot::sweat_drops:

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I mean they do seem evil and untrustworthy. Colonized or not.

Old people do it just as much, lol.

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I think you misunderstand what I mean by ‘respect’, I meant it more in a meta-sense. That whoever writes for them next should treat the subject with more care than they have been dealt with in the past.

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As I said before, I think the Amani are worthy of pity, not respect. Nothing about them, even in a meta-sense, is worthy of respect. They were written to have some of the worst possible qualities, ones modern cultures condemn. They were never meant to be respected, but hated or, if you chose to play Horde, an outlet to experience being the villain of the story.

WC2 was very obvious in who was good and who was bad. Chilidishly so. The Amani were written as downright evil, and their narrative has not changed over the course of the franchise’s existence.

It certainly could change. As of now? No, they’re not worthy of respect. Hatred, prejudice, continuously attempted genocide… nothing about the Amani is worthy of respect in the slightest. That is my opinion, at least.

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This is fair, how you view it will be tinted on what you consider colonization, and how you perceive the relationships between different groups of people.

To clarify, I see the Forest Trolls as a displaced native people, who’s boundaries were crossed by specifically the High Elves when they settled Quel’thalas on their holy lands.

Yes, this is technically accurate from a lore standpoint, but I don’t think it reflects well on the writers, considering the subject at play.
Consider the origin of the design for trolls, and think about the ramifications about what this says about what is being said about the groups depicted, even if by accident or by proxy.

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Displaced from where? The elves settled on land that was not settled itself.

The trolls were very much so NOT displaced by the elves, at all.

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Okay, I see, you just want to argue
:dracthyr_a1: :dracthyr_a2:

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No, I’m asking a legitimate question. What trolls were displaced by the exiled Highborne settling Quel’Thalas?

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