It doesn’t, because titanforged races are from Azeroth despite being created. That’s like arguing that plastic bottles from China aren’t from China because they were created at a specific point in time in China. Absurd! If the plastic bottles from China became sentient and started to live in plastic bottle villages with plastic bottle governments in China, they would be considered native in China too!
Using that logic, the Forsaken aren’t Native to Azeroth because they were created because an alien in an ice cube crash landed in Northrend and started to create an army of undead from the “materials” he found on Azeroth!
Titanforged are made in Azeroth ™ and thus native!
Ähem…this is…wrong. After the war between black empire and the titans, the world was dead, this is the reason the enclave were needed and the enclave were created through the woe. Shall i post the source this time again? To end this Discussion one and for all?
If something is artificially created, it can’t be ‘native’. An artificial object is not native to any environment. It can be artificially made with locally sourced materials that are native to a region, but the actual creation itself is not ‘native’.
It’s an artificial object, an artificial object cannot be native.
You can go and look up all the definitions for the word native, you will not find it applying to an artificially created item. It only applies to people who are born, plants, animals and metal or stone that is in a pure, uncombined state.
Its not quite as easy as you think, then azeroth as a planet is artifical aswell and was created by the worldsoul itself…to protect itself…its not a “naturaly environment”; if this is your standard.
Worldsouls create their planet…over time, they are there first, the planetar shell and elementals came later.
The original ones pre-curse of flesh are artificial objects, yes.
So we’re talking the Earthen, the Vrykul made from Stone and metal, the original Tol’vir in their pre-curse of flesh state. The very first versions of those creatures that were created out of stone and metal.
Post-curse of flesh, when these previously artificial creatures were now flesh and blood and able to procreate, then the next generation, and every generation after that, the ones that were born, were native.
Earthen for example, are artificial constructs, they are created, not born, and so they are not native, they’re artificial creations. However every Dwarf that was born after the Earthen were affected by the curse of flesh would be native.
I believe some people were arguing as to whether or not the titanforged races are native to Azeroth or not when compared to the Trolls, Goblins or Pygmies, but I’d have to scroll up to get the full context.
Trolls are native to Azeroth, because they were an evolution of an already existing species that lived around the Well of Eternity. Pygmies as well are completely native, having evolved from another native progenitor race. Goblins slightly less so because they were created due to experimentation, but the race that they originate from was native, as was the rock used in their creation, kaja’mite.
It is relevant in the sense that if you want to go back to humanoid life forms that are native to Azeroth and sprung wholly from Azeroth, without being forged by outside cosmic forces like the Old Gods or the Titans - Trolls come closer to fitting that description, at least in comparison to the Titanforged.
Perhaps the precise definitions of “natural” and “native” as used IRL can cause debate when applied to something in Fiction that does not exist IRL… like a lifeless metallic or earthen construct created by Alien Titans who are later cursed by Old Gods. Maybe the context does not fit because the words did not evolve with such concepts in mind.
But the point is that the Trolls were not ever constructs created by alien forces. They were not forged by Old Gods or Titans. They are wholly of Azeroth, even from their formation.
One could argue that the curse of flesh is not native to Azeroth, so the Titanforged became some sort of alloy/mixture of alien organic old god matter and the Titan constructs = not wholly native to Azeroth.
Except their whole “fury ebbed” because the titans had banished all the elemental lords.
And also the reason the planet was an elemental hell scale.
Without the War against the Old Gods/Titans the trolls as we know them would not exist nor could their empire exist. The world was not design for biological life. Saying they are “natural” ignores the fact the current state of the world is not “natural” and is influenced by the titans.
And yet the trolls would not exist as they are without the titans. Hence still “children of the titans”.
Sorry but no, that is not what Chronicles says. What Chronicles says, including in the passage you quoted, is that the Well of Eternity molded mostly already-existing lifeforms and turned them into sentient races :
The Well accelerated the cycles of growth and rebirth, and before long, it caused sentient beings to evolve from the land’s primitive life forms.
Also, from The Waking World and the Well of Eternity :
Drawing its energies from the infinite Great Dark Beyond, the Well acted as a mystical fount, sending its potent energies out across the world to nourish life in all its wondrous forms.
The Well transforms life and nourrishes it. It doesn’t start from scratch.
You said “NO life without the woe, no life at all” ; that is wrong, since the Elementals who managed to avoid being sent to the planes remained on Azeroth and developed into diverse races. Shall I post the source this time again ?
As Freya’s creations explored the world, they came across a number of other strange life-forms. These creatures had emerged from Azeroth’s elemental past of their own free will. When the keepers had sealed off the Elemental Plane, some stragglers had escaped banishment. The fury of these spirits had ebbed over time and they had become creatures of flesh and blood. It was from these former elementals that some forms of wildlife, such as protp-dragons came to be.
This quote makes it clear that those races evolved on their own without any WoE interference and that Freya didn’t create them but discovered them. Azeroth was never a dead world. After the Black Empire it was, however, sick and very poorly populated. Freya wanted to turn Azeroth into a planet with thriving flora and fauna, and the enclaves she built were aimed at optimizing and accelerating the emergence, evolution and spreading of lifeforms.
Oh well, if that’s what you call “children of the Titans”, then fine ; however following the same logic then Humans are the “children of the Old Gods” since their race would have never existed without the curse of flesh. Similarly, Naaru could even be called “children of the Void”, since they were born from the clash between the Light and the Void. That is the exact same type of relationship that Trolls have with the Titans.
Except you miss the bigger point here. While we in life can create machines, you cannot classify them as a living organism, because they are not alive. The Titanforged, however, are alive. Imbued with the magic and essence of the Titans.
In other words, the Titanforged are as analogous to procreation gets for the Titans as the biological procreation we as biological creatures experience it.
