I support all bigger troll tribes. That includes Farraki, Drakkari, Amani, Gurubashi and Zandalari. Not the Darkspears since those idiots are losers.
That is not at all what I asked Erevien.
I can support both. If the blood elves and the Amani are smart they will team up and fight the alliance together.
They got humanized, got lore and related to real life culture. Trolls are now people, and Quilboar are the new trolls. Just with less raids.
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from an being even able to rival the aspects as mortal sorcererâŚa completly valid standpointâŚ
At this point, there are no, âGood Guys,â in this story.
That said, the Amani are old lore, written initially to be as unsympathetic as possible, because they were a part of the blatantly, âevil,â faction of a game that was modeled after some of the oldest tropes in the fantasy genre. Much of what weâve seen since has been to develop them as more than two-dimensional cardboard cut-outs into something just a little bit more original. A little bit.
Iâd say the biggest problem is, the time frame is too massive, and Blizzard did not have the energy or interest in filling it in. Weâve a span of 4,000 years where the Amani just⌠bred, constantly, to build the biggest army possible, with the express purpose of committing genocide. That was their biggest claim to fame and the moment of their greatest power, all in the express interest of genocide. Not just the elves, they were gunning for humans too, and I canât imagine dwarves wouldnât have wound up on that menu, or gnomes.
One can compare the exiled Highborne to imperialists/colonizers for settling their home on what were ancient ruins. One could also compare them to squatters, honestly. Thatâs one of the points that doesnât get brought up: QuelâThalas was built on ruins that werenât held or even being actively used. All the elves saw was an ideal location to set up shop, not a population of trolls to be forcefully relocated in the name of their grand empire (which didnât even exist then).
Considering the High Elves never attempted to conquer territory the Amani were actively using, labeling them as colonizers falls just a little flat. With the Sunwell as a font of infinite power, I cannot imagine they did not have the power or ingenuity to destroy ZulâAman.
This isnât even a case of resource scarcity, because that was never an issue brought up. The Amani had no trouble acquiring food or lumber or anything they needed to survive. They were even able to thrive despite the existence of QuelâThalas.
The indolence and aloofness of the High Elves invariably is a shield for them in terms of, âright or wrong.â Just as the violence and systemic prejudice the Amani perpetuated within their own society generation after generation is a damnation.
Ultimately, this is why the Amani are not the, âGood Guys,â and why the High Elves cannot be either.
My two coppers on the matter at least.
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This has to be the biggest âHigh elves did nothing wrongâ post I have ever read on the forums.
I think a lot of players fail to consider things from the Troll perspective.
They are the only naturally occurring dominant hominid species on Azeroth. They fought a mighty and successful war against unspeakable evils from the Old Gods and won. Their progeny spread out across the world and developed secondary physical characteristics based on biome. They are the settingâs equivalent to Earthâs humanity only instead of an ice age they had a Cthulu Age and they decidedly comprehended the incomprehensible cosmic horrors and showed them just how easily they can bleed.
Then this weird substance causes Trolls to lose their tusks and have their faces concave in. Then those mutants with their X-Men powers scour Trolls to the outskirts before blowing up the continents. Then a buncha robots in extra large, large, medium and small variants all grow skin and start attacking them as well.
Thats like 7 different apocalyptic scenarios going down at once. How reasonable do you think humanity would be if we were clinging to the ruins of capitol, reduced to abject poverty as mutants and terminators ran rampant over our once hallowed halls?
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even the first sentence is wrongâŚNO life without the woe, no life at allâŚall life of azeroth is tainted by the woe, even the elemental based one. So, in other words, it was and is allways propaganda to claim that the trolls are the only naturally occuring dominant hominied species on azeroth, they were only the second oneâŚthe first were humans themselveâŚmutated space robots that stopped being space robots, they´re first description predate even the first description of trolls, and were there during the winterskorn-conflicts (That was even partly triggered by the curse of flesh and the first apperance of humankind or steps in between today humanity and vyrkuls - like drusts)
And the winterskorn/Titanforged-Civil war predate the empire of zul and the apperance of trolls.
even chronicle descript the trolls âamong the firstâ; not the first.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/739539695578382398/1005634152042856488/unknown.png
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Human propaganda per excellence.
no propagandaâŚbut simply lore.
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Titan propaganda.
Get dabbed on, mutant enthusiast.
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Except the trolls are not natural. They are as much âchildren of the titansâ as anyone else. No titans=old god/elemental dominated world.
This is not titan propaganda, it is written from a titan perspective above the cosmic parts, but not the âAzeroth-stuffâ
Which makes itâŚtitan propaganda and since all authors are considered to be unreliable by blizz, we should take what chronicles says with a grain of salt
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danuser said it about the cosmic parts âŚthat there were titan perspective, but there are 6 other forces aswell and explained that we will get a new bookâŚfrom the shadowland-povâŚ
The issue with labeling the Chronicles as, âTitan Propaganda,â is that it doesnât really meet the criteria of, âpropaganda,â at all.
So, what person, group, government, institution, or nation is the Chronicles created to help/harm? Canât be the Titan-descended races as the Chronicles does NOT skip over all the shady stuff they got into, and the Titans have no reason to defend the spawn of their Old God corrupted constructs.
Also.
I would consider the Titans to be somewhat impartial for two reasons. Firstly, their domain is that of order, and it would be disorderly, if not chaotic, to peddle false information as fact.
Secondly, theyâre clearly not burdened by ego the way some other groups are. For example, look at the Shadowlandâs lore book where THEIR cosmological chart pins Life and Death as the greatest forces. By comparison, the Titanâs chart shows all six as equals, and even if you consider those at the top and bottom to somehow be more prominent than the rest, the fact the Titans didnât place Order and Chaos at the top and bottom is evidence that they donât hold their own cosmological force superior to others.
In the end, the Titans are likely to have the most accurate and detailed history of Azeroth considering the numerous facilities and systems spanning the globe giving their servants all the necessary tools to chronicle the history of the planet.
So⌠yeah. Trolls arenât any more natural than any other race, and they werenât the first race on Azeroth anyways. Why being first matters anyways, Iâm not sure. Weâre one sentient breed of animal away from saying the Trolls were colonialists taking the lands of sentient beasts, and all land belongs to the sentient beasts.
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The dragonflayer giving birth to humans is placed around 15k years ago, we have the date from quests in-game from wotlk and chronicles do not state a year when it happened.
It depends on what race weâre talking about here, the well of eternity accelerated the cycles of life, affecting what was already there. Iâd say that a race is natural if itâs origin is native to the planet and is not artificial in origin. And I think this is what most people mean when they say natural.
While the titanforged are artificial in origin. They did not occur ânaturallyâ but was crafted and forged.
Iâd argue that all ânaturalâ races originally stem from elementals like the proto-dragons. They was turned into flesh over time with the well of eternity acting as a replacement for the lack of spirit on Azeroth.
As weâve seen on Draenor where the spirit element turned rock into flesh.
I think this can put many wild god descendant races like the quillboar into an interesting position though, are they ânaturalâ? The answer might be different from race to race.
Example the Jalgar (ancestor of furbolgs and prob pandaren).
Descendants of the bear wild gods, but in DF we learn that they have elemental ancestry and some are returned to it? How does this work if they evolved from Jalgar in the first place?
Let me explain my view. Elementals-bears-Ursoc and Ursol-Jalgar-Furbolg.
So the furbolg do have elemental ancestry, like all bears in this case should, and itâs this theyâre tapped back into, Iâd also argue this only âworksâ if theyâre actual descendants or blessed bears of Ursoc and Ursol. As I canât see this working if they were artificially made by Ursoc and Ursol since that would not give them the elemental heritage.
The Arakkoa are a perfect example of another descendant of a wild god, but this time on Draenor. However in this case theyâre artificial since Rukhmar literally made them in honor of Anzu. So Iâd argue that the Arakkoa are not a natural race despite even being born from a wild god.
And yes, I count elves as natural in origin as well.
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No.
Draenor is not a Titan World Soul. Elementals reigned there as they did on all planets before being displaced and/or killed.
It had elementals before Aggramar showed up. Thatâs specifically why the Botani were so out of whack, and the Botani were what drew Aggramarâs attention.
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Not exactly. Unless we learn of a prior era at some point before plants overran the planet, the earliest info we currently have about Draenor indicates that the huge surplus of Spirit and proliferation of the Evergrowth there preempted Draenorâs elementals from tangibly manifesting by keeping them dormant. So the elementals seemingly never reigned over the planet, as they only awakened and took form after the Sporemounds had been destroyed.
The Evergrowth was what drew Aggramarâs attention, not the Botani. The Botani didnât predate Aggramarâs coming, as they didnât exist until after Grond and later his Collossal âchildrenâ slew the Sporemounds, whereupon they and the other Primal races were born from the spores that were released by the Sporemoundsâ corpses. Before Aggramar unleashed Grond, the Evergrowth was one vast hiveminded plant entity sprawled across most of Draenor, which then split into three motile Sporemound entities to fight back. It wasnât until the Sporemoundsâ deaths that the Botani, Genesaurs, Podlings and other plant races arose from their remains.