If only the Amani had a gay cyborg from the future. Maybe that’ll be the big twist of DF.
4 Likes
“Accidentally wander”.
What if i accidentally wander into your house, i have the right to live there and kick you from it, just because i claim that was an “accident”?
Seriously, the Elves invaded someone elses lands, its not like they have a right to something because they claim that was an “accident”. The only reason they live there is because in Azeroth, might makes right.
3 Likes
-
The borders of my home are extremely clear. Whereas the lore says they didn’t realize it was troll land when they went there.
-
Whether or not the elves are morally in the right to live there wasn’t my contest. I said they didn’t start hostilities. If you wander onto my unmarked property on accident and I start shooting, I absolutely started the hostilities there.
That was a banger.
1 Like
Except that it was an accident, the Elves weren’t aware that the lands they moved into were sacred.
Shortly after their settling, something evil beneath the earth started to drive some of the elves insane, so they decided to press on into troll territory. It didn’t take long before the high elves founded the kingdom of Quel’Thalas in the northern forests, not knowing it was an area sacred to the trolls. The forest trolls attacked the fledgling nation in ever-increasing numbers, forcing the elves to use their strong magic. The superstitious troll warbands were frightened away and it was 4,000 years before they truly retaliated.[8]
Why would they desire an ally in the Amani? The Amani offers nothing to the New Horde that it does not already have, and besides, the Blood Elves by this point are far stronger than the Amani.
But that isn’t at all accurate to the events that happened.
It’s more like if you were wandering in the forest, saw no signs of anyone else living there, and tired and hungry you set up camp.
And I murdered you for that. Because you should have just known that’s my patch of forest, even if I left no sign at all.
Holy hell, the colonizers are back in force. The mental gymnastics we play here to continually justify turning yet another troll tribe into a punching bag and dehumanizing them despite constant community complaint is mind boggling.
What has been done to the Amani has been done. Hardly anywhere has there been the suggestion that the Blood Elves should somehow pay in blood and extreme land concessions to the Amani for past transgressions. What has been suggested, especially as potential plot points, is to actually help the two come to terms with the world as it stands. The Amani deserve their lands, full stop. The Blood Elves deserve not to be wiped off the map and now pushing 10,000 years being where Quel’thalas stands. The general consensus is to have the Zandalari, with the Darkspear, hammer out a deal between Quel’thalas and Lor’themar and the Amani. What that can look like could be most anyone’s guess, but certainly all of the Ghostlands are no longer needed by the Blood Elves and there is plenty of barren territory to the north and west of Zul’Aman for the trolls to claim.
This isnt a wrong that has occurred within recent history that has a clear right and wrong at this point, its a long standing issue that needs a different resolution. The reactionary dismissals happening here are ridiculous to say the least.
6 Likes
But Benedikt, it already happened. The Lament of the Highborne was composed in the context of the Troll Wars, because they were extremely bloody. Trolls mercilessly killing women and children, inflicting heavy casualties on the Elves. I imagine it was a massacre of gigantic proportions.
Which is also the reason I want the Amani gone for good. The Horde / Alliance war can’t end because of gameplay, but not in this case.
Wow. That’s a pretty wrong-head take on what colonization actually was like. Kinda offensive to people whose lives were irrevokably altered by colonization.
Like, when Europeans started meddling in the affairs of the lands they eventually colonized, it wasn’t because the Europeans happened to land in a forest after a massive cataclysmic calamity, and suddenly were being murdered by the natives for no other reason than tresspassing.
These situations are not the same.
You are behaving shamefully saying they are.
3 Likes
The colonizers I speak of are the players, not the Elves.
1 Like
colonizers are back in force
reactionary dismissals
Lol, Lmao, even.
Ok, why would the Zandalari and the Darkspear hammer out a deal between Quel’thalas & The Amani? The Darkspear have never cared about the Amani, and they’ve no reason to.
The Zandalari didn’t even help Zul’jin, they’ve consistently thought themselves above the other troll tribes. The problems of the Amani would be the least of their concerns right now.
1 Like
I know that. It’s why your casual use of the term is particularly offensive.
3 Likes
I don’t have to run any gymnastics. I don’t like the Amani at this point and I don’t care about befriending everyone that was once an enemy.
I feel like that’s fairly straightforward.
I wouldn’t be heartbroken if they were helped. But I find it very eh story beat.
2 Likes
Oh what don’t they write laments about. Their entire civilization is wine mixers and a symphony orchestra.
I’m sure they also have a dirge about the dreaded famine, where 90% of their population was killed the instant they ran out’ve white truffles.
1 Like
To be clear for those casually throwing Colonization around, Colonization wasn’t just “Europeans move to new place”. Colonization was the active, intentional exploitation of lands and people through intentional dominance of the local people. That’s the very bare-bones, very abbreviated version and doesn’t do justice to what the term means.
This isn’t that.
This is more akin to a refugee crisis or immigration.
It is actually offensive to compare a refugee crisis with Colonization and shows a total lack of understanding of the nuance of even broad strokes of either. I could go off on what making such a comparison says about those making it, but I’m sure it’s just a typical case of “I see people in minority groups use this term, so I’ll use it without knowing what that word means to them” situation.
3 Likes
I’d like it to be offensive tbh. Its colonizer mindset and who do we have here anyway? Erev, Dread, random reactionary cow, and an undead savior elf. If it is offensive usage to you, then I apologize. The characterization of the rest, however, remains accurate.
When it comes down to it, it is not just beat for beat of what could happen or what has happened according to established lore, but what does the story tell. What message does this conflict state? How does that effect our overall perceptions? Telling ya as it is suggested from the others, its not great.
1 Like
Let’s be honest, anyone who says the word “Colonizer” in any context is cringe.
Oh, I’m sure they ate a lot of truffles after they finally disposed of these disgusting filthy cavemen with the IQ of rocks and made them pay by melting their flesh so they couldn’t regenerate anymore. Their piggish squeals must have been music to the ears of soldiers whose villages were burnt to the ground shortly before.
People dislike the isolationist nature loving amazonian tree Elves, they also dislike the aristocratic decadent magic Elves.
I’m going to work under the assumption you couldn’t have read the post I made right before your’s here. I saw you typing as I made the post, so you very easily could have missed it. But just above, I gave the Dollar Store explanation for what Colonization is, and this situation just is not that.
The high elves, literally being exiled from their homeland, are a literal beat for beat retelling of refugee stories; forced to leave their home, not choosing to. Trying to establish themselves in a new land peacefully and without any malicious intentions towards the natives. Only to be attacked by the natives, to find those already living there would rather kill these refugees than see them live in peace.
The only divergence point is that the refugees unrealistically have the means to fight back and defend themselves. And actually do so successfully.
This is not Colonization mindset at all.
But it might be a little telling about how people feel about refugees crossing their borders?
2 Likes
I mean the bit in Sylvanas where their mon apparently casually shows off the gruesome trophy of troll ears was a bit loaded as imagery goes. Particularly when paired with the irony of calling them savages for doing the same thing to a Farstrider corpse.
I actually thought that was maybe going somewhere. Because Sylvanas clearly views them as mindless beasts to be killed on sight. Which is of course how she and the rest of the Forsaken are regarded later. Like there’s several levels of poetic irony to point out here.
But we sail gayly past anything that poignant to get to the real moral of the story;
If you want to go to magma heaven you’ve to devour your terminally ill spouse.
10 Likes