Ah yes, again with ‘rule of cool’ when there’s no evidence of it actually being used.
The last time ‘rule of cool’ was explicitly used by Blizzard was during Mists of Pandaria when they gave the gyrocopters (for the Alliance) and airship (for the Horde) miniguns so they could gun down the opposite faction. People asked Blizzard what the lore behind those weapons were and they said: “Uhh, we weren’t really thinking of that, only that it would be ‘cool’ for it to be there.”
Fact is that Hezrel knew about these three locations (despite being in Nazmir since before the Trolls lived there) and knew the names of these locations. If the trolls built the pyramids then Hezrel would not know the locations of the pyramids or the names of them. But he does.
Either Hezrel knows the names and locations of the pyramids, meaning the Titans build them, or he doesn’t know the names and locations of the pyramids, in which case the Trolls built them. Clearly he knows the names and locations. So the Titans built them.
And that’s okay. It’s 100% okay for the trolls to have found these Pyramids and decided to build cities around them. It doesn’t poorly reflect on the trolls at all.
This is a common theme in WoW history, so it fits. I don’t know why you’re so adamant to claim the opposite when the evidence that does exist makes it very clear that you’re mistaken.
The whole thing with ‘rule of cool’ is making something ‘COOL’ then creating the story for it afterwards, if at all. So when Blizzard does this huge spectacle fight, that’s ‘rule of cool’ then even if the story for it doesn’t make a lot of sense, it’s still there, just for ‘rule of cool’.
There’s nothing remotely ‘cool’ about a Titan Keeper knowing the names of three ‘troll’ pyramids. So there’s no way rule of cool would even apply.
Highmountain tauren, dwarfs, and vrykuls had not been at war with the Night Elf empire off and on for centuries or more. I personally do believe “one single Amani tribe” would have been treated differently, especially if they were attempting to establish a settlement on Night Elf territory (on top of a moonwell, no less!). That would be the definition of “starting to make trouble,” from the Night Elves’ point of view.
Where’s your evidence that this was the attitude of the Night Elves at the time of the destruction of the Well of Eternity? The Shatterspear came along much, much, much later. Even if some of the same Night Elves are still alive at that time, their attitudes could change over time.
Oh, no argument there. It’s just that for me, the writing of Sylvanas in BfA was SO bad that it broke the illusion that she’s an actual character. She’s become more like a walking plot device that gets yanked around by different writers.
Garrosh had a bit of that going on too, since they all but admitted that they changed the plans for him, but he really only had one major change of direction instead of several. So I can still see him as a character who is destroyed by his own flaws and not just the hands of the writers pulling him to where they want him to be. Mostly.
Just to swing back to this real quick - the issue with this very documentation oriented methodology and discussion of lore and story is just that - the available documentation. If we limit the discussion to only what is explicitly said and leave out any inferences and argumentation based on dialog, snippets, dev interviews/discussions, real world inspiration, and in-game/universe changes then we have a very stale and one sided narrative that lacks many actual methods of research and historical analysis.
There is a difference between argumentation, what Im describing as putting forward a narrative you believe with evidence that supports your claim but has not been explicitly stated, and out of the blue, wildly unhinged, unsupported claims that we have seen here as of late by certain level 10 alts.
If we want to stick just to canon, this whole forum becomes redundant. We know what the story says, its right there on wowpedia/in game. Were not extrapolating who is right, who is wrong, what are the nuances of all this, what is being said, what is being left out, how does this reflect the upon the writers and what message does it give to those experiencing the game. Games are a type of art, and art has meaning that the consumer is suppose to take away. Something as mundane such as this is a cute dog and I liked how they looked to entire statements on socio-economic development.
I might be making a mountain out of a molehill but sticking to just the lore, as presented, is so limiting and does us a disservice.
It’s about time the writers offer a Troll perspective on all those events. The Troll Wars, the Cata-MoP war against the Zandalari, the fall of the Drakkari Empire, the Darkshore events regarding the Shatterspear… It’s always the non-Troll group that gets to tell its side of story. We need both to discuss the lore effectively
But are we really going to want Blizzard, especially in light of the past two expansions and issues at the office, to try and talk about the complexities and nuances of colonialism, national sovereignty, exile, and diaspora?
I wouldn’t trust Blizzard with talking about the complexities and nuances of anything really. But the alternative, that is to say having narratives that depict Trolls as cartoon villains from start to finish as the only canon lore sources, is even worse I believe
Thats fair. My only concern is that they’re going to give us some flash back of Warlord Jin’Zul who speaks in the most bloodthirsty and violence for violence sake’s terms that would put Khorne to shame rather than at least a half hearted attempt at presenting a relatively-recently decimated world and a society just barely recuperating from catastrophic world wide disaster.
Are you developing a deep hatred for someone you don’t see eye-to-eye with right now, and who you could really destroy with nothing more than a display of power? The night elves have not had the time to develop a deep enmity with trolls. When they were in conflict with them, they effectively defeated them after a few battles on the Battlefield of Diplomacy and made sure that the Zandalari, the largest and most influential troll tribe, kept the other tribes under control so they wouldn’t have to deal with them anymore.
Sounds this like a story full of hatred? Its sounds to me more like a story of…to look down on the trollkind.
That the trolls hated the night elves for this, okay, point taken, but…the night elves? Their pov should and is differently, because to be fair, they have no “bad past” with the trolls, no big war, no real fights…only a few battles and then…“peace”
The trolls were defeated after a few battles…because azsahra lost patient and put them in the place she thinks they deserved. After this, there were - from the night elf pov - “peace”. The battles were over and that is it.
The night elves have no “bad past” with the troll, the troll have a bad past with the night elves.
The trolls were beaten down…in small battles, and then azsahra made the deal and put the zandalari in charge to oversee their own kind, that the tribes would do nothing and let the night elfs do what they want…in exchange for their holy mountain and dazar’alor.
“Small, sporadic battles” means not “Fought for centurys to come and developed a deep hatred”; the night elves didn´t hate the trolls, from their pov there were no real…fights, only a few battles over 10.000 years ago, but from the troll pov there is every reason to…hate the night elfs. They´ve taken their land, their pride…and showed them how insignificant they were compare to the night elves at their prime.
All that proves is what Azshara thought. It doesn’t say what the attitude of the average Night Elf commander would be, and it most certainly doesn’t prove that even Azshara would take kindly to a group of trolls essentially reclaiming a part of her kingdom by setting up their own settlement.
If the Night Elves cared so little about the trolls, why did they even bother to make treaties?
We may just have to agree to disagree about this. It wouldn’t be the first time you had a different reading of Chronicles than someone else. Besides, this is just a side tangent to the question of whether the High Elves had any right to take the land that eventually became Quel’thalas. They knew it belonged to the trolls, so they didn’t just innocently build a city on what they thought was unoccupied land.
Because they disturbed, from the night elf perspective of that era…the trolls were a nuisance. The other alternative would have been the total annihilation of the entire trollkind, which was the deal Azshara gave the trolls; live in exchange for submission. The trolls chose survival and lost their pride, which is why - as it says - they hated the night elves so much.
“This shamefull acquiscence fostered the trolls`s deep resentment toward night elves, a bitter hatred that would carry on for generations to come”:
No, not that, but it explains why the night elves never had any problems with trolls in their territory after they had the new government, I mean, they lived with dark trolls for 10,000 years in the same place without any trouble.
That’s because they couldn’t develop hard feelings, from their perspective it was just nothing significant, the trolls back then were business as usual
The story of Warcraft drives on elven and human supremacy. It is sad really. Literally the white coded christian medieval age kingdom(Stormwind) is supposed to be the best that Azeroth has to offer.
It’s pathetic really. Yet the natives, trolls and Tauren are treated as either savages worthy of being mass slaughtered or just big dumb people worthy of mocking
If Blizzard would put me in charge of the lore I would change alot of things. First I start with dismantling the structures that made Night elves and humans rose to power. Those races have gotten more then enough attention and it is about time someone challenges their position.