I feel like the Ethereals should be a Horde race.
The Horde really lacks a cosmic entity sort of race, and the Ethereals’ technology complements what we see from the Goblins rather nicely.
I wouldn’t complain if they were Alliance, or even neutral, but I feel like the Horde needs the Ethereals more.
It’s usually the worn out
“They deserved it cuz insert racist colonist reasons I made up written from elf and human point of View”
People can symphazise with that.
That’s why specified it with the void. I have no problems with normal etherals joining the red team.
With the Amani, the problem is that they are very much a product of their time. By that I mean, they were written to be evil monsters with no redeeming qualities, because that was just the stereotype as of WC2.
Blizzard had opportunities to move away from that, but they didn’t. The Amani didn’t get the Horde’s WC3 treatment, and Zul’jin was doubled-down on as being a villain. Maybe if the Blood Elves hadn’t gone Horde that might’ve gone differently, but that wasn’t what happened.
When we get down to it, the exiled Highborne settled on land that was not in active use by the trolls, and which they had no reason to suspect was anything other than abandoned ruins. As of this time, we have no evidence of the High Elves launching wars of genocide in order to exterminate the Amani. In fact, we have no evidence that the High Elves ever sought to increase their borders at all.
The fact of the matter is that the High Elves built a nation, but the Amani had enough land and resources to breed an army over four thousand years to launch a war of genocide against the elves. It’s not as if the Amani were being displaced, or denied critical resources for their survival. They were thriving.
I will remind you of this argument next time night elves wage war over some trees when the Warsong clan never expanded further west from the lumber camp.
Tell me, how do you think all the current alliance nations started out? I Tell you. By taking the land away from the trolls. Zandalar is the last troll empire not fallen or gone by now.
I think that’s a fair claim to lay at the feet of humans, but the High Elves didn’t expand their borders. At least, not that we have evidence of (10,000 years is a lot of empty pages that could be filled in whatever way Blizzard chooses, after all).
Remind me of the part of Quel’Thalas’ founding where the exiled Highborne go on a demon-blood fueled murder spree against the Amani’s most sacred Loa.
The night elves attacked the Warsong Clan without warning over trees even before Grommash drank the blood. That is s fact. So I am Not feeling sorry for the Amani who deserve some justice against the decendants of High elves and Humans alike. They defended their land something which is the right of everyone involved. And I hope they become the next core race of the Horde.
You saw the giant firestorm? I think that’s counting as active use of WOMD
Yup, which happened about 4,000 years after Quel’Thalas was founded, and the Amani started a war of genocide.
You’re welcome to compare the Orcs to the High Elves and the Night Elves to the Amani, but it’s not as clean a comparison as you wish it were.
I think that would be a good idea. Some may say “High elves already are customization for rendorei”. That is not a true high elf though, and i overall despise the idea that distinct races are just customization.
I would even say Wildhammer are an especialoy good counter for forest trolls.
Overall it makes sense to call the rave what it is rather than the tribe. The Amani and Revantusk are both forest troll tribes.
Storywise i want the Revantusk to br the dominant forest troll tribe too. I would be mildly disappointed if they were thrown in a closet for Amani remnants. Have the Revantusk take in and aid the survivors(Assuming something bad happens) of the Amani and become a bigger part of the Horde.
The Revantusk even have a whole city now claimed for themselves ajd the Horde, Jintha’alor.
It’s called revenge. And it’s time for humanity to collect serious Ls for a change.
That was called, ‘The Third War.’
I mean, at this point the only human kingdom to not wind up destroyed has been Kul Tiras. Stormwind in the first War, Alterac in the Second, and then in the Third it was Lordaeron and Dalaran, and somehow Stromgarde fell in between then and Vanilla… Gilneas fell as well. Theramore wasn’t quite a kingdom, but it also got blown off the map.
The faction fanboy die hards like erevien love ignoring alliance losses because it’s inconvenient to their notion of the horde being the eternal victims
And for Blizzard’s faults, they portrayed Zul’jin as a leader of a people who suffered under displacement, war, and arguably settler colonialism who began to wage a decolonial struggle pretty well for 2004-2006 understandings of everything. He didn’t care if the Horde had aided them before, the Horde abandoned them and now are knocking at his door just as the elves did with the Alliance. It may have been meant to be portrayed as vengeance initially but later readings show they had something going there.
Its also shown Quel’thalas routinely ‘mowed the lawn’ with the Farstriders, ensuring they raid villages, take out upstart warbands, etc. Not to mention the elves were attacked since the first day they stepped into Amani territory, and attacks increased as they settled in the sacred/revered Amani ruins that became the Sunwell and Silvermoon. Also to be real, the Sunwell, Silvermoon, and the surrounding cities, towns, and estates didn’t just poof overnight. It was a deliberate effort over time to establish these places. Dawnstar and, Windrunner spire, the various sanctums, etc. You’re right that Quel’thalas has not been shown to be an overly expansionist entity, that within 1,000 years or so of settling they more or less set their borders and stuck with it, but that doesn’t change the fact of what initially happened.
Like, take a step back if were going to talk about this long conflict. You’re a few words away from saying skull size determines intelligence.
I’m simply putting out there was Blizzard themselves have done with the Amani. As I said, when they were introduced they were the stereotypical evil race, back in WC2. That never changed. Blizzard never changed it.
Could a narrative of the trolls being the tragic victims of colonization be pushed? At this point it wouldn’t feel like a very honest one. Virtually all of the Amani’s problems are self-inflicted. Why they left a sacred city abandoned doesn’t make any sense at all. It’d be like the Zandalari living in the swamps, and then getting offended that someone comes along and builds over those golden pyramids that no one was living in.
Whatever aggression on the part of the High Elves has always been displayed as purely retaliatory. It was the elves’ passiveness which even allowed the Amani to breed an army over four thousand years. That is how little they bothered keeping an eye on the Amani, or worrying about them. The Amani had 4,000 years to breed an army, and the High Elves had no clue about it.
Small wonder they’d routinely, ‘mow the lawn,’ after the Troll Wars.
This is the narrative Blizzard has pushed for the Amani. They are very much so the architects of their own destruction, consumed by hatred and vengeance. It’s never too late to redeem them I suppose, but after having stuck to that narrative for so long, it’s going to feel extremely out of place for the Amani to backtrack and forgive the elves.
Also I’ll just add my personal feelings, but if Zul’jin doesn’t get redeemed into the bargain, I don’t see it as being all that worth it. Problem is, he’s dead, so… it’s not as if there’s much that can be done on that score. Even in Revendreth he’s shown to be unrepentant. Guy might be in the Maw by now for all we know.
I count 5 nations of Humans and one for Orcs and unknown for most trolls. You see the problem yes? Only Goblins match the influence of fantasy humanity in this story.
Show me the last time the Horde won at least one of the four faction wars we had so far. Alliance always comes out in top.
Edit the alliance fans are serious making arguments in defense of people naming a royal house after successful colonial effort. That’s why everyone knows the imperial apologist are either high elf fans or MHPs usually. THEY ARE NOT THE VICTIMS
Point is Erevien, you and everyone else who suffer from Faction Brain Rot lie and ignore events when you make your horrible claims
The Outcome of the war matters. And that never changed
The First War?
Not like the Alliance has won more than 1 faction war either (the Second War). The last two ended with treaties, not victory or defeat.
Wait, what? Who brought that up? I’m assuming you mean the Trollbane’s, but you’re the one to bring them up.
You blatantly lie and ignore events to push your Horde are eternal victims complex acting like the alliance never suffered any losses or from terrible writing.
The Alliance won the second war and the invasion of Draenor. And those losses were so huge for us that the Orc race almost went extinct. All sources agree on that.
Alliance wasn’t formed back then and Stormwind is healthy again now, Can’t say the same on Outland.
Yes. Humans and high elves started to hund the Trolls for sports. Blizzard wrote the Amani in such a away its impossible by now not to draw parellels to real life events any more.
Those losses are not heavy enough that the status quo of world control was ever challenged. The titanforged races and elves still own most of the land to this day.
One of the compelling aspects of the Amani and elves is what can be seen as the, general, benevolence of the elves and the correctness of the Amani. The Elves, as you correctly stated, as whole never went on a genocidal or expansionist rampage and largely stayed north of current Ghostlands, and only expanded south to the current Ghostlands after the Troll Wars. The Amani, correctly, never agreed to cede their territory, particularly their revered grounds and have rights to resist occupation. So no one is in the particular ‘wrong’ at this point given the length of time its been going on, but the elves are certainly more in the wrong of the two. These are the shades of grey that folks ask for in the story.
Still, the framing of this is simply incorrect. Many revered and sacred spaces throughout our own history have been abandoned or sparsely lived in. That doesn’t make them any less valid. No one lives in or around Mt. Rushmore but you know very well that if some Canadians came down, decided to set up camp, and blow the faces off, every red blooded American is going to dawn their red white and blue undies to reclaim the area (i’d be throwing a party). That is to say nothing about the original Black Hills that were sacred to the Dakota, Lakota, and Nakota peoples that the U.S. decided claim, break their own treaty, fight the Black Hills War over, and deface it. Given that in Warcraft the place the elves took was a convergence of laylines, meaning material power and access to magics, it holds arguably more meaning than something only cultural or symbolic.
Lastly no one has seriously argued for a full retreat and forgiveness of the elves. If anything most folks have suggested the animosity remains, but that if we want to advance any sort of cooperative agreement between Silvermoon and the Amani, that concessions should be given to the Amani. And lastly, good that Zul’jin doesn’t repent for anything. He has nothing to repent for except for maybe a cookie he took from his grandma without asking.
You’re getting close to a phrenology degree, not to mention the Sneering Imperialist perk.