Did we? Or was this a border skirmish? Thats all BG’s seem to be.
You say this in a game called warcraft. If someone isn’t conquering something, we don’t have a game to play. Right or not, this is a thing, and both sides do it.
I don’t concede the other points, but i think we can both agree we’re going in circles here. Neither of us is convinced, and I don’t think either of us is going to change our mind.
I do still believe the Alliance is in the right. I just don’t think the entire horde are the monsters you claim them to be. Which is why you have people still playing them, and mad at blizzard for VB’ing them.
It’s not. Its an important point. As of the beginning of WoW, Arathi was in the hands of ogres. It belonged to NO ONE. of course there are skirmishes there.
Thrall’s horde deserved a place to live. They couldn’t go home, the dark portal was sealed. You’re in favor of genocide. An awfully funny position for a night elf to take, considering.
Yeah, if you’re going to be rude, we’re done here. This had been a pleasant conversation until this statement.
No, the Kingdom of Stromgarde still stood. It was weak, but it was still there.
No they didn’t.
In Hindsight, knowing that the Horde would go on to continue to be more destructive than any big-bad we have ever faced. Yeah. Orcs are no better than demons.
Fair enough. I know where you stand. Genocide is a viable option. Right. That thing we’re fighting a war against sylvanas for committing against your people.
You should grow a tiny mustache. Right under your nose. Then go attack poland, I hear they’re harboring orcs.
The Horde is responsible for more genocide than The Burning Legion, the Old Gods, and perhaps even the Scourge… If you knew that for a fact, at the time when it was being decided what to do with the orc survivors of the 2nd war… Allowing that to happen would be equally as evil.
I’m Polish, with family who died in the Blitzkreig, in concentration camps, who lived under the oppression of the Soviet Union. If you are trying to prove some kind of moral superiority, this is not the way to do it.
thats… a bit melodramatic considering the Legion had subjugated entire worlds (plural)
I apologize, but then again you should understand the point better than most, then. You saying the orcs should be destroyed is the same as saying that all of germany should be wiped out for the crimes of the third reich. It just doesn’t make sense.
Normally I don’t like to take the night elven side in this argument but it WAS night elven land, and their dead relatives become part of the forest or something like that. While I still think it’s unreasonable for outsiders to know that when they were chopping down trees, I don’t feel that a right of conquest is a smart thing to do when your group is trying to atone for being demonic conquerors. Saying that it’s okay for the orcs to trespass because there were enough trees to go around misses the point that those trees were already claimed.
Specifically to Azeroth, the most destructive force has been the Horde.
I do understand the point. It is you who do not understand. I claimed with knowledge of what the Horde will do, Genocide is the solution. The problem is that in the moment, we can’t know what people will do. But if killing the orcs after the 2nd war would prevent the countless more death and destruction to follow… And we knew that with absolute certainty, then it would be irresponsible not to take that step.
That’s not true though. The only reason we even still have this conflict is because thrall chose the wrong person to put his trust in when he left the horde. If he’d promoted Cairne, we’re still living in (relative) peace with the horde today. Garrosh is the reason we’re still at this point. Well, that and whatever told Vol’jin to put sylvanas in charge as he was dying instead of turning to thrall and saying “hey, your turn again.”
Also, we wouldn’t have driven back the legion for good without the horde. Or beaten death wing. They have done good.
Thrall was having conflict with the Alliance before Garrosh. King Varian was a Horde slave during Thrall’s reign… Thrall failed to keep the Forsaken from experimenting on humans, and he actively defended Sylvanas after the events of the Wrath Gate… Thrall openly put War Criminals of the Old Horde on a pedestal. Thrall was the biggest hypocrite this side of the Great Dark Beyond.
But he didn’t… Because Thrall himself has an Orc superiority complex and didn’t believe a non Orc could be Warcheif.
How many Orcs supported Garrosh… Enough to challenge the combined might of the Alliance and Horde rebellion…
Not necessarily true. We very well might have if the Horde had not been stabbing us in the back every few years.
This, i also try to sympathise,i really do but what, trading rasthakan for one of our most iconics characters in a battle that we were destined to fail from the start? wut?
The alliance didn’t started this war, we don’t deserve to lose our heros.
We deserve to WIN.
i think that dazarlazor is a gigantic mistake to make a raid
and that faction war is pure cancer because it has everyone super angry, including me.
There is not way that we will have a satisfactory outcome after teldrassil.
I said it a hundred times and I will say it again.
Stormheim incident should have continued and the Alliance attacked Lordaeron.
Horde fights for survival.
Alliance gets payback for everything.
Teldrassil is the finale.
But Saurfang stops it.
He is already guilty for Shattrath, imagine him, decades later stopping another massacre from happening. Because hey! An orc actually stopping a massacre? Madness.
The Horde is now irremediable. There is literally nothing they can do to absolve themselves especially with this pacing.
It would not at all be hard to position it from the Alliance standpoint that they considered the war to have already been started back in Cata, or even at the Broken Shore. Plenty of Alliance such as exiled Lordaeron(ians?) and Genn would be eager to steer him to that viewpoint. The Forsaken have been shady since forever, there was plenty of impetus for them to make a play at Lordaeron, even if it was couched in (self-)righteous terms like ‘liberation’ or ‘restoration’.
Hell, they could have used Calia as a puppet to legitimize their attack - they are forces of freedom seeking to restore rightful rule to a blighted kingdom. It’s only been a few decades since the Scourge, after all.