murders you mean wars, thats why countries just dont willy nilly shoot people, cause thats how wars start and wars are super destructive to everyone
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Trust me, you don’t want this discussion on game forum about fictional world.
Well you said ‘to this day’, but ok. Regardless, the Orcs don’t have a great history of respecting Night Elf land before meeting them and after.
It literally cites it as, “Ultimately, Dath’remar chose to lead his people away from Tirisfal to avert violence and spare them from further calamity.”
I frequently disagree with American law, such as that case. Also, you keep citing ‘possession’ when there’s also a reasonable difference between ‘land you own’ and ‘your physical house’.
By ‘former enemies’ you mean ‘people of the same race from thousands of years ago’. And by ‘already stole a huge chunk of their territories’ also ‘from thousands of years ago’.
Hardly true looking at the elves various instances of cooperation and time gap between seeing them.
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You mean like the help they got from the Humans? Because this on page 120 demonstrates the difference of what happened:
- Dath’Remar Sunstrider and the Highborne continued their quest to find a home in the Eastern Kingdoms. They followed the trails of magic essence, seeking the confluence of ley lines that their scouts had spied in the north. The HIghborne’s journey proved unexpectedly brutal. A ferocious blizzard stopped the elves dead in their tracks for nearly a month as they traveled, with no way to move forward or escape from the mountain passes.
The Highborne quickly realized just how vulnerable they had become without the Well of Eternity. For the first time in memory, they began to die of starvation. Only the compassion of some primitive Humans living in the mountains kept the entire expedition from perishing in the winter’s fury.
Once the storm lifted, the Highborne forged ahead, shaken but determined to find a new home. As they drew closer to the land that the scouts had found, hope warmed their weary hearts. Verdant woodlands blanketed the terrain, and the ground beneath the HIghborne’s feet crackled with potent lines of magic. But the elves soon discovered that another race also called the region home: the barbaric Amani trolls.
The arrival of the Highborne infuriated the trolls, who harbored a bitter hatred of elves from the days of Queen Azshara. The Amani set out raiding parties immediately, and the Highborne soon learned to fear troll ambushes in the dense forests.
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AND Because of Leylines. They could move south for all we know. Nothing told them that they HAVE TO go south, especially when climate was super rough for them and they didn’t like the winters.
All I know is that every time when personal possesion is disrespected it esclates pretty badly.
Trolls still remember, And elves who are the very same generation who casued these peroblems don’t?
Yeah I don’t think they can get away from such responsibility wich such a long lifespan. They really can’t get away from “it was the other generation who did that” excuse.
Well it didn’t happen with Amani. And they were the ones who should’ve do that if they wanted to enter someone’s territory.
Yes, and after they were given help they still considered to “relocate” the humans. And once they regained some strenght they pushed into troll lands. Because that’s what they believed they deserved, naturally.
They chose north for leylines, but they didn’t leave for them.
It definitely goes bad to just kill people for walking on your land the first time you’re aware of it.
The Elves (we don’t know the amount from the same generation) probably remember what Trolls are and the wars they had. That doesn’t mean they knew where their post-Sundering land was.
Yeah, because they were attacked on sight.
There was no chance to, because they were attacked on sight.
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What? No, the Humans in the Alterac Mountains gave the Highborne aid after the Highborne had already moved on from Tirisfal after Dath’Remar decreed they would not attack the Humans for the ley lines under their homes.
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Try asking a tauren whether dwarves are good at diplomacy…
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You can be an evil person who has their home taken. You can be a good person that invades other people’s homes. Isn’t that the defense of invading alliance lands, or pushing races like the quillboars and gnolls out of theirs?
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Hey, how about that. More of the moronic faction-baiting contrivance I mentioned pertaining to the blood elves.
So contrived that frankly none of the other tauren tribes seem to even care about the Stonespire thing. Almost like it was a sloppily forced event that happened in a bubble just to artificially foment a “grr, that (Insert Faction Here) did this out-of-character atrocity just to make us mad!” response.
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I don’t think it was out of character, though, if that’s what you’re suggesting. Or it wasn’t back in Vanilla.
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why not? Seems relevant.
You are talking about Amani Trolls and High Elf wars in a Teldrassil/NE thread.
Attack doesn’t necessary means kill. And that is quite obvious message “go away”.
But they should’ve quickly vome to conclusion that since they live there, and clearly fon’t want them there for their past relations fornsimple decency they could’ve move elsewhere.
It’s not like trolls owed them anything. It’s not like it was trolls fault that there sundering, and it’s not loke they have to take care of everyone that seeks help. Especially elves.[quote=“Irenaus-wyrmrest-accord, post:267, topic:451387”]
Yeah, because they were attacked on sight.
[/quote]
So that means they should’ve go away instead of slaughtering through their path to settle in their heartlands making themselves permanent target for constant agression.
There were 2 factors speaking AGAINST settling there. The neighbours and the environment. But they chose the most unreasonable thing to do and decided to press it anyway. Trolls can be wiped out anf they can change environment for their own likings after all.
This is how entilted Highborne are. And it’s truly baffling that people are defending invadors here simply because Amani didn’t want them there.
As an independent nation they had every right to bot allow people into their territories. Especially elves who again took already took stuff away from them.
Elves are not innocents here. [quote=“Irenaus-wyrmrest-accord, post:267, topic:451387”]
There was no chance to, because they were attacked on sight .
[/quote]
So they should retreat, if there are signs that they are bot welcome. I mean seriously, would you like to live among people like that?
That doesn’t justify pressing into troll territories. And trolls attacked because they didin’t want elves there. Elves aren’t justified in this case at all. Sure they can defend themselves AND retreat, not to push into to live among such a hostile people. They themselves asked for trouble with such a hellbent intend to conquest troll land.
I was quoting the stuff you yourself posted. Look it up.
I think that invasion to take stuff from others who were just minding their business was pretty evil thing to do, especially when there were other options.
Because it was adressing one particular scenario. Both Orcs and helves were attacked on sight for tresspassing into occupied territory. The difference was that orcs had every right to not be aware of it’s habitants and didn’t know who these people are. Elves knew because they already warred with them before. Trolls recognised them rightfully assumed that they came to take more of their lands, so they launched assaults.
Another difference is that orcs were portrayed still as in the wrong because Grom instead of retreating drank the demon blood - even against the local Witch Doctor Advice to NOT drink it and slain demigod.
This topic escalated because OP said that Amani weren’t genocided, which wasn’t true.
And neither I believe that “not wanting to share your own territories” is a reason for extermination.
By your definition is every act of conquest a genocide then?
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No, not every conquest ends with Genocide, but it happened to Amani.
Why couldn’t they be pushed back? why a “genocide”?
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Because they were systematically exterminated for centuries, pushed out of their territories to the very rim, and “hunted down for a game”, their holy places were desecrated, and they were systematically rooted out of their own country.
Everything is out there to check up.
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Actually. No.
Unless you got a quote for that, otherwise it’s your own sensationalism.
Yep thats what happens to crumbling countries in such settings.
Um… ok?
No their lands were just conquered. Thats all we know and see.
Yes. And everything seems to indicate the trolls were weak and got pushed out of their territorial heartland.
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After Humans and elves rounded them up to incinnerate them amass like nelves were they continued to hunt down for survivors.
They took over their territories and slain every other inhabitant. To this day both elves and humans have “troll hunters” to raid them and cull their population.
Thats how things are.
No, this is what happens when 2 nations invade one to take over their territories and slay their population. Or you actually believe that take over of such a big territory happened without manslaughter?
So were nelven ones.
They were winning military enounters. They were nuked down by elves and humans.