Alas, it is the curse of the troll breed. From the Zandalari to the Kaldorei and even the Quel’dorei, diplomacy is always seen as an absolute last resort one only undergoes in desperation.
Mostly because diplomacy doesn’t seem to be a thing on Azeroth. If all of Warcraft lore was a book it’d be titled “World of Communication Failures”.
This is also not true. As the Highborne specifically didn’t attack the Humans in Tirifal because the Humans had not attacked them, as covered by Chronicle: Volume I, Page 118:
Dath’Remar did not agree. He had no wish to war against a people who posed no threat to his kind.
and I already said, it wasn’t identical in every way. However, the outcome is identical. Foreign army invades land- indigenous people fight back- indigenous people are eliminated in one massive strike and now threatened with extinction.
and I never debated that. I just said there’s a difference to a tactical retreat in order to wipe the pursuers out in one massive, magical firestorm and a retreat out of fear for one’s life as the Amani did after that. Forgive me if I really don’t see the humans as victims here.
Is it? High Elves invaded troll land before. Tried to invite the Burning Legion to Azeroth. Caused the Sundering. Couldn’t resist the temptation of arcane magic even after that and were then exiled. Marched into troll land. Kept advancing into their territory even though they soon found out they were not welcome, killing every troll who dared cross their path. And you want to tell me the appropriate reaction from the Amani should have been diplomacy?
His fleet finally landed on the beaches of the kingdom men would later call Lordaeron. Forging inland, the high elves founded a settlement within the tranquil Tirisfal Glades. After a few years, many of them began to go mad. It was theorized that something evil slept beneath that particular part of the world, but the rumors were never proven to be true. The high elves packed up their encampment and moved northward towards another land rich with ley energies.
As the high elves crossed the rugged, mountainous lands of Lordaeron, their journey became more perilous. Since they were effectively cut off from the life-giving energies of the Well of Eternity, many of them fell ill from the frigid climate or died from starvation. The most disconcerting change, however, was the fact that they were no longer immortal or immune to the elements.
They also shrank somewhat in height, and their skin lost its characteristic violet hue. Despite their hardships, they encountered many wondrous creatures that had never been seen in Kalimdor. They also found tribes of primitive humans who hunted throughout the ancient forestlands. However, the direst threat they encountered were the voracious and cunning forest trolls of Zul’Aman.
These moss-skinned trolls could regenerate lost limbs and heal grievous physical injuries, but they proved to be a barbaric, evil race. The Amani empire stretched across most of northern Lordaeron, and the trolls fought hard to keep unwanted strangers from their borders. The elves developed a deep loathing for the vicious trolls and killed them on sight whenever they were encountered."
In other words trolls were defending themselves from tresspassers.
The Amani definitely were.
But if the Amani had not attacked the Highborne wouldn’t have used that as an excuse to fight back and stay.
The Highborne did not attack the Humans despite being on top of powerful leylines, they wouldn’t have had any reason to attack the Trolls by that same standard, either.
Or… Or, they could just turn around and move away?
You know that I find even more unnatural? Why would you press yourself to live right nextdoor to a neighbour you utterly hate and you know it would bring you trouble?
I wouldn’t want to live nearby beings I have " a deep loathing" for.
What kind of logic was that?
That doesn’t seem to be how Warcraft works. See the Orcs drinking demon blood instead of leaving the Night Elves’ forests.
Warcraft logic.
No we don’t. The Elves specifically decided not to brutalize the humans.
Led by Dath’Remar, the Highborne made a new life in Tirisfal Glades. For a time, they dwelled in peace and reveled in their independence. Yet as they tapped into the area’s latent magic, they found shades of dark energy. These shadowy powers drove some of the Highborne to madness. They began to argue that the humans have built their settlements atop the most potent ley lines int he region. Therefore, the Highborne should force them to relocate… or even conquer the primitive beings outright.
Dath’Remar did not agree. He had no wish to war against a people who posed no threat to his kind. the wise leader also sensed the dark energies radiating from the land. He theorized that they might be responsible for the sudden rise of belligerence and madness that was afflicting the Highborne.
Ultimately, Dath’Remar chose to lead his people away from Tirisfal to avert violence and spare them from further calamity.
Even being drive to aggression and madness by the land, Dath’Remar prevailed in his desire to not war. (Amadis beat me to it).
Agreed, hence why I say ‘mostly right’ for both groups. They have a right to defend their lands, but open hostility against a race at first sight isn’t good.
Yes, most unfortunately. Even like the Forsaken’s attempt whimpering out.
Ok, because you said ‘did they really do that?’ The answer is a resounding yes.
This is all that’s relevant because the last parts happened after the initial and continued assaults. And my answer would be yes, the truly correct thing is to attempt diplomacy first (though I question the Troll’s precise knowledge at the time of all that besides they only cared that, ‘hey, these people look vaguely like our enemies from thousands of years ago’). Because we’ve seen the High Elves are capable of making reasonable agreements, both before then and after.
The trolls can be nice too and live with the elves in harmony
Orcs only went for lumber they didn’t go with intent to conquest the land entierly.
And Orcs did leave the forests only keeping small presence to harvest lumber.
To this day Ocrs didn’t took over the nelf lands.
But the funny thing is :
That Elves were contemplating to first take over the land from “peaceful humans”.
So you nicely proved my point. With highborne who believe that they deserve everything all what matters is for them to get their way.
I’m sure you’d like to live with someone who broke into your possession? I mean why would you be angry, you can just be nice and live together instead.
but they didnt they are refugees, the trolls could have welcomed the strangers with open arms
They were not harmles refugees if they slaughtered their path through their territories. Refugees aren’t just pushing themselves on others. They request help.
And they had other options. They picked invasion.
They kept fighting and killed Cenarius until Medivh made peace.
Eh, they’ve infrequently invaded Ashenvale for that purpose. Even as recently as The War of Thorns.
But they didn’t, even being influenced by latent dark magic of the C’thraxxi, chose peace by leaving. That goes to show the point they likely would have done the same had the Trolls not immediately attacked rather than seek diplomacy.
My first response to someone walking onto my land isn’t ‘kill them’.
see heres the disconnect, in the actual lore the trolls attacked first, the elves didnt even attack the humans tribals
You must have missed the Warsong Gulch Battleground, Garrosh’s invasion of the Night Elves’ lands, and the War of the Thorns.
And they didn’t, because these are the more important lines that you are willfully ignoring:
Ultimately, Dath’Remar chose to lead his people away from Tirisfal to avert violence and spare them from further calamity.
The problem is, the way they go about it is completely detrimental to the trolls as a whole. Rather than trying to build a new troll nation from what they have and then grow from there, unifying the tribes to build up and someday challenge the elves, they insist upon repeatedly stirring up these unifying actions that simply utilize the other forest tribes as fodder in a massed assault from an ultimately still-fragmented position to restore their own seat of power.
Build a nation at Zul’Aman. Give the forest trolls a reason to unite that isn’t just a chance to spill elf blood. It speaks poorly of the Amani if they can’t manage to convince the other forest tribes to work with them for any reason other than killing someone else. Offer joint protection. Offer home and hearth.
But they don’t. Because they seem to have this idea in their heads that if they just rile up a bunch of angry tribes enough to fight and die, it’ll put them back on top of the pecking order in a restored empire where those other tribes will go right back to being subordinate lesser castes who do as they’re told.
Framing reunification solely around the shared desire to tear down Quel’thalas is a doomed methodology because it’s a premise for collaboration that dies as soon as they fail or succeed. And unfortunately basing their efforts upon that methodology makes it apparent that the Amani tribe care about having their own power back more than they generally care about elevating the forest trolls as a whole. I.e. if they aren’t the top dogs their interest in a united forest troll situation isn’t quite so keen.
Oh, I dunno. The dwarves seem pretty good about it, as aside from the Ragnaros-dominated Dark Irons they’ve historically gotten along with humans, gnomes and elves pretty smashingly, and only the idiocy of contrivances to force the modern-day Horde/Alliance paradigm led to them being hostile to blood elves.
And really things weren’t exactly desperate with the night elves and trolls; the Zandalari saw that it could get that way if the issue continued being pressed, so they took steps to prevent it before the other tribes could end up in a war that got them wiped out. Between that, the Zandalari/mogu alliance and their ability to unite the early tribes against the Aqir, Zandalar honestly has a history of being pretty diplomatically forward-thinking and averse to engaging in wars without a really good reason to do so.
I mean, one of the few wars they actually instigated was a war to honor their diplomatic commitments and arguably secure peace through preserving their alliance with the mogu by trying to put down the pandaren-led rebellion. And the other was similarly them backing up the mogu when Lei Shen tried to claim Uldum. Just overall the Zandalari don’t seem prone to start wars of their own; they generally only march off to war if it’s to help an ally.
I meant after those events.
I know but it happened later not in the beginning of WoW itself. which was the period I had in mind. And even then Horde failed to conquer these lands.
They left them because up in the north more potent laylines were located.
American Law - at least in few states - allows you to shoot down person who breaks to your possesion. Because you never know if it’s an armed burglar.
And these weren’t ordinary strangers but their former enemies who already stole a huge chunk of their territories. Trolls can cooperate and coexist with other races. But Elves already provided them pleanty of reasons to not trust them at all.
countries dont tend to do that lol
Americans dont shoot illegal immigrants or any people crossing there borders
A real pity, lots of murders would be prevented if someone had means to defend themselves.