Leaving how this was written and my brain hurting aside:
It is significantly easier to spin a capped base than to capture one.
It’s why capturing them is so important. In bfg losing ww is most often gg because it’s so much harder to get a base than it is to spin one.
What they should do is make it so the two active bases are always the ones diagonal from each other rather than on the same side. This would require more effort to hold both bases and would give incentive to fight in the middle for the flag more often.
Seems like an easy enough fix without overhauling the entire BG.
They are. That is what the current format is, diagonal bases are active.
It just doesn’t take much. Send 2-4 to the opposing base at start, take it and then it’s gg.
They should just have them rotate active/inactive like ab and dwg. Make it so you can’t just sit on 2 bases and spin to win.
Granted, I haven’t played the rated brawls yet, but when they were unrated, there was rarely an issue with teams holding both bases an entire match unless the other team was doing really stupid things. It was easy enough to send in a large enough force to take one base.
Now if the bases were forced on one side of the map (top, bottom or sides), I can see a team holding both bases the entire time. I don’t remember if that was how it operated at one point.
But if it truly is an issue in rated matches, then maybe holding bases should give less points and capping a flag a lot more.
This is the best fix. Currently holding the only 2 bases accrues points like a 4 cap in regular eots.
That’s super fast. The game is over in around 3 minutes after capping both bases, and the points for capping the flag aren’t worth the time since now bases are inactive and you risk not getting both again.
There needs to be a fix to flag capping, as well as the bases not being the easiest win possible. Whether that’s making them uncap over time like ab/dwg, or something else, it’s gotta change bc the current format is trash.
Or they can keep things the same but make it so a third base randomly becomes active throughout the match. But not sure that would solve anything because I’m not sure how 1 base with flag caps would compare to simply holding two bases.
But if the flag cap counted more than holding a single base it would be interesting.
Why are people complaining about eots? Yes, you can take two bases and win quickly. But it’s not like you can just choose to do that and boom 100% win rate, there’s that pesky little thing stopping you - the other team with the exact same strategy. By this logic you should also be complaining about bfg. All you do is cap 3 bases and boom you win. Ctf maps, all you do is cap 3 flags real quick, it’s insane. Kotmogu? You just grab all 4 orbs and win in 2 minutes
Anyway, at least eots promotes fighting around it’s objectives. Ab/dwg aren’t fun maps, they’re just mount simulators, boring fights and is usually decided who can cc cap the most
Yes. I actually think it is a very well-designed map and rule set. The game is never really over since you can do a full reset with a flag cap.
If your team is losing the match quickly because they give up two bases and don’t take them back, then that is on the team. That is not a problem with the map.
AB and DWG are definitely my least favorite maps, since I don’t feel that one player can have as much impact there. You are very dependent on the rest of your team being able to win fights where you aren’t.
Yes, the last DWG I did I was on my frost DK and I just sat farm the entire match (I rotated two bases before the mount speed nerf). When the node becomes invulnerable I just ride off and pick up the cooldown power up and invisibility power up and sit the node while invisible until it becomes active again.
There really isn’t time to do anything else in that rotation.
This is what I said…only smarterer!
It is, though. I’ve been in several comeback wins in EOTS due to flag cap resets. The thing is, if your team is losing two bases that quickly then often times that means that your team is just mismatched either on combat mechanics or map awareness.
Those would typically be losses no matter what.
I’ve definitely been on teams where it felt like I was the only person that wasn’t blind. But if your team is letting the other team ride across and just take your home base without defending it, then… they deserve to lose quickly.
I have a video for that, but this is definitely NOT a map design issue. This is a player intelligence issue. For those who might complain I only post wins: here is a loss. A bad one.
What you’re describing is the only mechanic of that map. Eots has 2 mechanics - domination (bases) and ctf.
The current eots scoring system actively dissuades capping the flag. It slows the rate of victory vs just having two bases. Even if you cap once or twice, at any point you can get both, it’s better to do that and spin.
That’s not a good mechanic. It makes it a straight domination map and removes the ctf portion entirely.
That video is a great example, it’s under 3 minutes from them getting both bases to gg.
Why even cap the flag then? Which they didn’t. Game over in sub 5 minutes with an entire mechanic of the game not only not being used, but being a distraction.
That’s my complaint. The current scoring mechanic practically eliminates half the game. Don’t cap flag, grab bases and spin.
And who can’t spin for 2-3 minutes?
It depends. If one team is not able to get two bases because they both defend their home base (if both teams are decent then this is typically what happens), then it turns into a split base match with a mixture of base control and flag caps.
I agree that the flag definitely has less emphasis at the start of the match. The most important thing is having at least one base.
I can understand wanting the match to be more determined by flag caps and I’m sure it could be redesigned such that it works that way, but that’s not the way the maps works at the moment. The quick losses happen because one team fixates on the flag rather than ensuring their home base is defended.
If the home bases are both defended, then the match has a nice ebb and flow to it (IMO).
Oozo, apparently…I kid…/sarcasm
Oh I know, and I agree. I promote ignoring the flag completely in EOTS, but that isn’t what I meant. People are complaining about going for 2 bases and ignoring flag. That’s the fun part, it’s a small gilneas. It’s not good map design though and takes away from the uniqueness of EOTS
Not sure why this map of all are getting complaints when there are far worse maps out there
That’s all I’m saying. The current scoring massively benefits pushing for both based and completely foregoing flags.
I think either adjustments to the score or changing how the bases work would make it more fun. Make the bases swap like ab/dwg bases and you’d get even more fighting over bases and flag caps.
That’s fair. I was only specifically complaining about eots bc I just think it’s poorly implemented at the moment.
Best practice is absolutely skip flags nab bases and spin to win.
The 5 base maps are just goofily large for 8v8.
What if the corner bases rotated, such that only one on each “East / West” side of the map was active at any one time? It would create more fights instead of moving zergs from one node to the next maybe? Or it could make it worse…I don’t know
Talking about DWG.
Or with dwg and ab, mid is always active, but have 2 active (farm/st or lm/gm for ab and quarry/shrine or farm/ruins for dwg) bases that swap every like 2-3 minutes.
Then there’s only ever 3 active bases at a time to fight over, 1 that stays constant (mid) but the other 2 can only be controlled so long before needing to rotate.
I dunno, just ideas.
I’m to the point now where the only ones I enjoy in BG Blitz are the two flag maps. The BGs that are designed (sized) for 15 people don’t seem to work well enough for 8. You’re forced to split your team to much and with only two healers, there’s hardly any healing around. I keep going to a base at the start, nobody else is with me. I see two members of the opposing team approaching and I just have to turn back.
While I’m not a fan of Gilneas, at least it’s a much smaller map with only three nodes. It just gives way too big of an “alliance advantage”.
How long has BG blitz been around and there’s still tons of players that don’t know how to EOTS? You have to tell them repeatedly they’re standing at an inactive base.