From my data/recordings not all the changes were mentioned. Brann being the main issue. He is much much weaker than yesterday.
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Well i didn’t design it, but they want the gear rewards to decently resemble the content difficulty of different activities. They don’t want you getting mythic level gear easily.
It was undertuned for groups. People thought it was a free ride to 600+ gear. Now, they’re mad its not free.
Still too much…
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They already have been. In fact, Zekvir & tier 11’s were completed by many in the first 2 days of release and now it’s gated.
If a game company wants to put out difficult content then nerf it gradually that’s the way to do it. Not the other way around. That is cheating the community.
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T9+ were never advertised as that. Everything beyond T8 is optional/prestige stuff, not intended to be relaxed.
What was intended (which is of course not how people are approaching it) is for casual solo players to gradually work up by improving their iLvl to match the recommended iLvl for the tiers until they get to T8. Instead people want to blitz through the entire system in week 1 of the season, and when that proves challenging, the system itself is the problem.
T8-T9 delve gear drops are on par with normal raid level drops.
The difficulty should reflect that but we now see T9 delves being more on par with heroic raids/ m0 raids
T11 with keys or extra challenge modes would make more sense imo.
They messed up the scaling, obviously. Yes, it was discovered and then abused by players for a day or two, and then it was patched out.
Why is the mess up on scaling obvious? Because mobs had lower health for groups than they did for soloists. Obviously that isn’t how it’s supposed to work, so they changed it. Now, they may have changed it too much (that would be typical for Blizzard as we know), but they couldn’t leave it the way it was … the way it was, there was never any reason to solo a delve because the content scaled down in difficulty when you grouped – not just because a group has more firepower, but because the mobs were scaled down.
Challenging vs unfair are different all together
Also, it’s too late. Many players blasted through max delve rewards day 1 & 2.
It’s a matter of being unjust to the community now.
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Fun was detected.
This reminds me of the scaling changes last week. You get noticeably weaker as you level, more than at any point in at least the last 2 expansions, and level 75-80 for many classes feels awful. What’s the solution? Nerf every level below 80 but level 70-75 get nerfed more.
How is "making it worse for everyone’ a good change?
This is always the way and it’s deeply frustrating, even demoralizing. I hadn’t gotten up to the Tier 8 rewards yet. Not because I couldn’t but because I was taking my time. Just like I did with Early Access levelling.
So now we have some who have used Delves to get ilvl 610 and the latecomers are going to have to work 5x as hard to get the same reward. Great. Just great.
Blizzard’s only tools for difficulty are instant death mechanics and one-shotting. For raids they add knockback mechanics on a platform.
“interrupt or die” mechanics, getting one-shot, constantly dodging instant death swirlies, DoTs/AEs that ignore threat that turn the encounter into a huge DPS check because your class doesn’t have healing… that’s what happens when Blizzard tries to make something “hard”.
People don’t want that. If you do, go play Elden Ring.
Brann was also nerfed.
I’m almost at the point of skipping this entire patch and hoping 11.1 is better, although I am looking forward to 11.0.5. Next week we’ll see how TW scaling goes. If it was awful like it was in Legion TW in the prepatch then I’m definitely out until something big changes. If it’s more like DF TW then that’s fine.
I like to play BM Hunter and, much like delves here, BM basically got massively nerfed with next-to-no notice, a complete kneejerk overreaction. And now it’s just not fun to play. I expect the Week 1 M+/raid DPS rankings to back this up showing BM clear at the bottom, possibly competing with Fire Mage. Blizzrad has some fixes aimed at 11.0.5 but that’s still quite far away. Maybe the DPS rankings will prompt them into action. Hope springs eternal.
The last patch of an expansion is usually the best because that’s where all the systems finally get fixed. Remember how much better SL was after 9.1.5 (not the last patch I know)? Even so, I enjoyed 10.0. Even 9.0 felt better than 11.0 is feeling now.
I get closer and closer to opting out.
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Yes there we bugs that needed fixing. But it needs to be more accurately tuned now.
It seems like a rush job to stop people from getting rewards fast. Someone panicked and cranked the difficulty until they properly tune it.
Not really. They patch the game as it needs to be patched. Players don’t have any ground to stand on that they weren’t able to take advantage of the broken scaling before it was fixed. When the game has a bug, it will get fixed and you are not entitled to a raincheck to get the “advantage” of playing the bugged version. Neither will they roll back what the other players did, because they, too, were just playing the game.
In live service games, things get patched and fixed, and sometimes that means players who are doing the same thing later on have a harder time than earlier players did, because the developer adjusted it. Just how it goes in these kind of games.
I did not take advantage of this, either, because I have been traveling and unable to play this week, but I am not salty about that – the more important thing is that the scaling works properly, not that some players took advantage of it and other players now can’t.
Maybe.
Like I said, Blizzard has been known to do this: when something is broken, you hit it hard with a hammer to turn off what isn’t working, and they you go back more slowly and fine tune it. It may be what they are doing here, too. Not ideal, but it is how they handle these kinds of things, often, I think.
So that’s why they rolled back Brann last week for those who exploited the experience items that were tradeable on the AH?
If they made an exception there than that statement is pure hypocrisy.
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It’s their call, of course, but I would guess they handled that differently because it was more of a clear exploit that relatively few players were doing. In this case, a massive number of players were grouping on Tuesday and Wednesday, and I am guessing that they just don’t want to roll that back.
Hypocritical, maybe, sure, but they seem to decide how to handle these on a case by case basis.
Probably the best thing for them to have done here was to have turned off group access to delves altogether, pending a fix, on Wednesday when they saw what was happening. They were slow to react, I think, which is certainly worth criticizing.
1 Like
I’m super confused about this whole thing. Delves are exceedingly easy whether solo or in a group in the first few tiers. But they obviously get harder with each tier. So what is the complaint about tier 8 not being casual or relaxing? That’s like complaining about heroics being harder than normal. That’s kinda the point.
Delves should be treated exactly like everything else. You find where you’re comfortable or how hard you want to push. Except with delves you can test those limits solo.
Tier 8 seems like it’s in a pretty darn good place. It’s plenty difficult but still possible. Over the coming weeks it will get much easier as gear dramatically improves.
Pretty good place? Getting hit for 14mil with 5mil max HP is far from “good place”. You aren’t going to even hit 14mil HP this season in general.
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The complaint is that they just made them harder for groups than they were from Tuesday through yesterday.
There was an issue where things were not scaling up for groups properly, making the content much easier than intended for groups (and much harder for soloists relative to groups than intended). So they fixed that – that’s what the OP is about.
Imo the difficulty increase in raiding from normal to heroic to mythic is much more gradual.
Delve difficulty per tier above 8 is absolutely floored. We will see delves get retuned as this was more or less an emergency button press for Blizzard.
It should not be like this nor will it last like this.
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So they fixed them. Isn’t that a good thing?
I tried it today did t8 fungal delve solo , I didn’t find any change are these suppose to effect in t9 and Up as those I know the damage is heavy when I last tried .
Yea exactly. They dont want the normal and heroic level raid gear being too easy too attain. That then trivializes normal.