But you don’t engage in rated PvP. How could you have any idea about the state of WoW PvP… when you don’t participate in it…
Its like saying: LFR raid is simple… how can you complain about the Mythic version of it?
Not trying to be mean. But my man… this is a conversation you shouldn’t be a part of.
LOL. OP isn’t even strictly talking about rated pvp. OP is honor level 67 and less than 10k hks.
That was what I was responding to. There’s more to pvp than humping pillars for 20 minutes. This is also the warmode/wpvp forums. The only people that shouldn’t be here are the ones talking about rated pvp 
It’s mind boggling how people continue to think PVP is exempt from having to grind gear. WoW PVP isn’t just about skill it’s also about class AND GEAR.
You want skill based PVP then play Mortal Kombat or Street Fighter and similar games.
Why shouldn’t it be though? Why keep a bad system just because blizzard has been too lazy to do anything about it?
PvP is obviously better when gear has been removed as a factor as much as possible. Why should grinding for gear be a part of PvP? What does it bring to the table?
Noone’s aim of PvP is to grind gear. People want to do PvP to test their skills, get better, and have fun in a dynamic environment against other players as opposed to repeating the same scripted PvE content. You can do this without the gear grind.
It’s bad because it’s a gear progression? It’s bad because those that put time into their toon can beat those that don’t?
Says who? MMORPG has rewards for putting in the work and nothing should be given because you think it should.
Why shouldn’t it? It’s an RPG which is based on progression thru gear and PVP has always been a part of that system.
Speaking for everyone??? Lot of people PVP for gear as well as fun. This isn’t a game from the fighting genre. This is an MMORPG based on gear progression both for PVE and PVP.
Plenty of games for that, Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, COD, Battlefield ect ect ect…plenty of games.
You can but then it would defeat the purpose of it being an MMORPG based on gear progression.
I really hope Blizz doesn’t cave in to the whiners on this subject. Plenty of other problems in this game and grinding gear for PVP isn’t at the top of that list.
Why do you think that just because this system/minigame exists within an MMORPGs world that it must function just like the rest of the majority of the game?
Just because arena occurs within WoW does not mean it must follow the same progression system.
For example, people do not go out and pet battle to collect scraps of gear to feel good about their GEAR progression. It exists entirely seperately in terms of progression awarded.
People also do not queue for the brawlers guild in hopes of obtaining a spicy new cloak. They go their to push rank and test themselves against difficult solo encounters. This again, rewards something other than loot.
PVE exists Soley to progress player power. It’s direct reward is to give participants a chance at ever so slightly increasing their power through gear. Makes sense.
PVP is a different beast. Now of course, there must be gear involved because people cannot just PvP naked and be utterly useless in the broader world, but as a different game mode, it doesn’t NEED to follow the same progression system as PvE.
Why? Because the objective is completely different. Competitive PvP players do not queue for rated arena and smack their faces into eachother to get a new pair of boots. They do it to improve their skill, learn to out play their opponents, and grab a spot on the leader boards.
Gear is simply a means to compete. NOT the objective of this game mode.
In a world as big as Warcraft, not every single variation of game play must revolve around the exact same core mechanic. Gear is fine and upgrades are fine. Gear disparity this large is a unintentional flaw and does no actual good for the competitiveness of PvP.
All it does is give people who previously could not compete skill wise a crutch, which is why we have people battling to justify it.
Because that’s what the game is, an MMORPG progression based game. It’s been like that since Vanilla so why should PVP be exempt?
I believe it does and since it’s been this way since vanilla so does Bliz. You want a “skilled” based game there are plenty available. WoW uses a gear based progression for both PVE and PVP and IMO shouldn’t change.
Maybe not with niche portions for game like pet battles or brawlers guild but it absolutely should with one of the biggest parts of the game, PVP. Saying PVP doesn’t need to follow the traditional norms of an MMORPG in WoW would be the equivalent as saying PVE doesn’t either.
How would that be the same considering both of these have a completely different reward set as well as objective?
You continue to boast the importance of gear and use previous expansions as proof, but you fail to acknowledge that every previous expansions, for the most part, had a much more simplistic and expedient way to gear in and for PvP.
The main point of people complaining about gearing this expansion is that it is incredibly unenjoyable and long. Gear can be apart of pvp, but not in its current iteration.
People that say that obviously didn’t deal with raid/M+ gearing before 9.0.5. Compared to those two reward systems until recently, PvP gearing hasn’t been bad at all except for alts. It’s arguably the fastest of the three major systems of WoW.
Yes its bad that gear and class balance are the two biggest factors that massively overcompensate for player skill. Im sure even you can see this. Why do you think there are rules in virtually every single competitive league in the world around technology use and what players can and can’t use?
The reward for PvP should be seeing your rank go up and seeing an improvement in your play. You can still have the mmorpg aspect through the PvE and world content without forcing it into pvp. If you want MMORPG + PvP go do World PvP. There isn’t even anything inherently MMORPG about rated pvp. People do rated pvp for ratings and test their skill.
Its obvious you have much more time to play than the majority of the player base and you’re scared of losing your huge advantage.
Because clicking queue -> accept and then floating diseases in bgs or in every naz flooded was difficult, I’m sure.
Is this your legacy, or do you have actual accomplishments inside/outside the game?
You’re so freaking mad and it gives me great joy watching you froth at the mouth. You must be so embarrassed by your own lack of accomplishments, which is why you post on a classic toon so people can’t find your main. Also yeah I think I’ll just report this post of yours, since your obvious infatuation borders on harassment.
Pvp is perfectly fine! Respect the Cooldowns now!
How are they different? PVP progression is rewarded with gear just like PVE progression. Are you saying it’s different because 1 is vs NPC and the other is vs other players?
Ok so maybe they need to change the progression rate but that’s not what’s being asked in this thread. Some are asking for gear to be completely removed as a factor. Making the claim PVP should only be skilled based and gear shouldn’t matter.
I see your point.
What??? I hardly have time and NONE of my players are above il204 AND almost all of my time is spent PVPing(wPVP, BGs with a little arena). I don’t complain when I get stomped by a higher geared player nor do I come to the forums asking for gear to be removed from all forms of PVP. It’s a part of WoW and has been for the past 15+ years.
Except for when it wasn’t…
Yes other than a brief 1-2 year period, the game has always been about who has better gear.
Since vanilla it’s been gear based or did you think everyone was handed High Warlord gear? Sure there was a time when templates was a thing but for the vast majority of WoWs PVP existence it’s been based on gear.
What about in Warlords when PvP gear scaled up? Or in Legion when there were templates?
BC you just had to have moderate gear and stack resil to be decent. MOP was the only expansion where you could rightfully say Skill>Gear.
This expansion has delivered the worst PvP experience to date, and you people are here defending it? The gearing is terrible this expansion, everyone knows it, but you are just here saying that people just need to play more?
Warmode is almost non-existent, Arena engagement is at an all time low, and battlegrounds are completely out of balance. But have fun with your “That’s just the game, get used to it” argument.
Like I said there was a small period of time for templates but for the majority of WoWs existence PVP had gear progression.
Perhaps you should read what’s being said. I’m not against making some changes but I’m against making gear irrelevant for PVP which is what some of you “people” are saying.
Or we could come to the forums and whine more…decisions decisions