I feel like the story writers don’t get enough credit and deserve a thank you. Thank you for writing a story where I can finally team up with classic Horde heroes like Thrall, Baine and Saurfang to take down Sylvanas the phony Warchief and her totally undead but human looking lover. The Horde is in a weird state right now with the Forsaken being at the head of leadership. This would’ve never been a problem had Forsaken never been added to the Horde in the first place but that’s another story. At least Blizzard is taking great steps in fixing it and in the next expansion the Forsaken go back to their status as being on the Horde but out of the spotlight and out of mind. They were cooler that way. I’m enjoying this story a lot more than Legion cause finally Horde characters are getting some spotlight and not just Alliance ones.
Spoiler: It was also great seeing Baine is free and alive in the Tauren heritage armor quest.
Dude, not to be a downer, but Lor’themar is included in that roster now.
Like, I get that you’re pretty anti-elf/undead … but I feel like that guy has long since proven himself as part of the Horde (the idealistic WC3 Horde) by this point. He chose his side by 8.2, and in a massively strong move showed his support for THRALL’S Horde (what the Horde was conceptually when his people joined). You’re just being disingenuous if you can’t admit the BEs are a solid addition to the faction at this point. The Nightborne by extension also likely will be as well.
That being said, I am partial to the old band getting back together: Thrall; Saurfang; Baine (as a stand in for Cairne); Rokhan (and Loa’Jin); Rexxar; and even Gazlowe is making some moves (PLEASE let him be our new Racial Faction leader Blizz, him and Mida would be AMAZING leaders to the Gobs).
I’d agree it’s nice to see Lor’themar finally do something for the Horde and not just stand back silently. I’ve stated before I don’t even necessarily have a problem with Blood Elves on the Horde. They just need to know their place on it. And lore wise I’d be suspicious of them still. Once a traitor always a traitor. I don’t believe Lor’themar is in any position to be Warchief of the Horde ever.
The Nightborne I treat as a joke. They’re basically just fake Night Elves. They were designed to try and replace and erase Night Elves while putting them on the Horde right after the Night Elves having their home destroyed. It makes no sense they are on the Horde. What have they even done for the Horde?
It would be nice to see Gazlowe lead the Goblins instead of Gallywix.
Nightborne are meant to be a truer representation of Highborne Elven society. They are in no way “FAKE” Night Elves, if anything they’re what the Night Elves were before they devoted themselves to Elune and the Natural World. They are NOT intended to replace or erase the Night Elves.
Also, did you play Suramar? Not only was the lore and storyline GREAT, but I made sure to run through with both sides just to get perspective. If you didn’t see the clear differences how Tyrande (the Chief Military and Religious Authority of the entire Night Elf civilization) and Liadrin/Rommath (A chief military authority and THE highest cultural authority for the Blood Elves) treated the Nightborne … not sure what to tell you. The reason the Race joined the Horde (specifically the Blood Elves) does have a lot to do with how their cultural representatives treated them (on both sides). It makes absolute sense why they joined the Sin’dorei over the Kaldorei when looked at the language and prioritize of both Elf Races.
Tyrande helped them liberate Suramar. She in no way treated them wrongfully. She merely asked for reassurance they wouldn’t act like Elisande or Azshara who come from the same twisted culture. It’s complete myth to act like Tyrande treated the Nightborne badly when she went out of her way to help them. The Night Elves have mages too you know? Whom are Highborne descendants. So yeah, it makes no sense the Nightborne joining Horde and especially staying on the Horde after the Warchief of the Horde does genocide on the Night Elves and destroys their home. So in the end it just proved Tyrande right about them anyways. It was just made up lore pulled from thin air simply to give Horde playable second rate Night Elves.
Whoa this aint alright, in chronological order Kal’dorei adored elune since she evolved them from trolls, THEN all that highborne debacle happended when azshara came to power,I ll give you druidism but adoration to elune was pretty heavy since they got near the lake.
Well … for one, the Nightborne joined the Horde PRIOR to WoT.
Also, did you … not pay attention to Tyrande’s dialogue? Am I the ONLY person who actually went and talked to this woman while playing this storyline (on BOTH Factions)? It feels like people look at the Nightborne and stop at “ELF” sometimes. Throughout that ENTIRE campaign she prioritized TWO things: Defeating the Legion AND taking back HER city (emphasis on the HER). She does NOT prioritize the well-being of the NBs, beyond the functional military benefits of doing so.
She even shows downright contempt and disgust that these “mana-addicts” were even there. While her mistrust is … I guess understandable knowing who she is, she harbors such a massive 10k year old grudge its sort of insane. Also, the Highborne Mages allowed back into the Kaldorei had to jump through quite a few hoops and sanctions to do so with Malf; they are a culturally suppressed people to some degree (they are bound by the deals they made to beg their way back in).
Like my favorite line of dialogue from her is what she says to the Horde PC she doesn’t even like that much: “I did not expect you to see you in the company of these mana-addicts at the footsteps of the city of MY birth. Speak quickly … I am not in the mood for Thalyssra’s petitions”. Even if she meant the BEs … the NBs are every bit (if not MORE) Mana addicts than the BEs are by this point of the story. See sort of what I mean about Tyrande’s temperament towards her long lost kin?
Throughout the entire Campaign Liadrin does nothing but empathize with the NBs. She’s been there; she understands the consequences of Mana Addiction (and withdrawal); she understands the pain of having a beloved leader betray her people to the Fel (Kael); there is never a single point in that ENTIRE storyline when she doesn’t make it apparent she’s fighting FOR them (and even Rommath is excited what sort of cultural sharing they could have with their “cousins”).
the night borne didn’t have to join any one lol blizzard just decided to make them playable and then went out of their way to put them on the horde… then proceeded to burn down the ne capital LOL
yeah tyrande didnt fawn over the night borne at every turn, so what? she was serious and getting down to business with dealing with the legion and yet another corrupt member of her kin, assisting a young rebellion. but no she didn’t treat them terribly she went out of her way to help arm and train them and overthrow their leader as much as the blood elves did…
also pretty sure my mans is correct here. elune worship predates the highborn arcane worship.
No, but the idea that they would have EVER joined the Night Elves is a joke when their literal Racial Leader and HIGHEST Religious Authority can’t go five minutes without spitting at the revolutionary that fought to save her people.
Its also VERY true that even before Allied Races were going to be a thing, the Nightborne relations with the BLOOD ELVES was far more positive than it was with the Night Elves (who really seemed like they were only there because they felt they had to be to fight the Legion). Valewalker Farodin was also an independent actor, and his ideologies weren’t exactly the norm for the NEs.
But … I think the reason the Nightborne joined the Horde makes perfect sense when pointed towards a single explanation from Thalyssra. They claimed their intentions of wanting to be a part of this world again at the end of Suramar, the Blood Elves (specifically Liadrin) gave them an opportunity for that by simply asking. The Night Elves (specifically Tyrande) … predictably did not.
When did she spit at Thalyssra lol She asked a real simple question of her
I don’t see it as a joke at all that they could have joined the Alliance. if she was THAT bothered that the the person who helped overthrew Azshara and sacrifice quite a lot in doing so and was fighting the legion for third time in her 10k years of life wasn’t just all chipper and ready to grovel at this young rebels feet who shared much of the culture with elisande, if she was THAT bothered by all that thalyssra could have simply requested a presence with Anduin Wrynn if she wanted to know more about the Alliance.
its so funny people think sympathy should be a one way street. where was thalyssras sympathy for tyrande and the kaldorei?? where was their respect? there was none and they got the same treatment in return. oh, wait, they got loads of arms and soldiers from the kaldorei in assisting their rebellion still.
fact remains all tyrande did was ask for reassurance from thalyssra about her intentions as a leader. “how can we be sure you won’t become the next elisande?” words of wisdom to ponder with her new found position of power in the nightbornes society… then tyrande said “we shall see where lunes wisdom guides us”, meaning the question of the night borne joining them was open ended, not denied.
but you’re right that lady lliadrin was much more snakish in her groveling and “sympathy” for the night borne.
It isn’t MOP 2.0 though. The story would objectively be worse if Sylvanas remains Warchief anyways.
Nightborne are just such a badly written race. They never even existed prior to Legion. It was just retcon nonsense just to give the Horde second rate Night Elves. It’s for people who want to play Night Elves and look like them but not play on the Alliance. Hopefully Blizzard doesn’t give Nightborne much spotlight after this expansion and they stay out of mind and out of sight. This experiment of trying to make the Horde a faction of nothing but Elves and the red version of the Alliance is not going so well.
Why would the Nightborne join the Nightelves? Do you not understand how the NightElves perceived the Nightborne way of life? How they perceive the Highborne way of life? These are the people that literally had laws sentencing execution for Arcane practice after the Sundering. Even if some of the Highborne were allowed back into Kaldorei society by Malfurion, the NEs have a LONG history of holding contempt for the very way of life that the Nightborne represent (hell, Maeiv actively tried to slaughter those same highborne; and she’s unlikely to be the only NE that things that way).
You’re essentially asking them to join under a faction of people that fundamentally believe their culture and their way of life is wrong (led by a woman who is clearly deeply mistrustful of that way of life). Just because they’re ALSO “Kaldorei” (in the ancient sense) I’m not sure that goes very far. Elven Arrogance is a racial trait, and all of them hate not being the highest nose in the room when it comes to other elves. Also, Liadrin was showing genuine sympathy to them in Suramar … to suggest otherwise because of the recruitment questline is stretching it.
excuse me… does the alliance not have mages or cultures involving arcane arts?
maybe if they had joined the alliance then these differences between the night elves and night borne could have actually added some depth and source of conflict to the faction that everyone seems to agree has none…
okay which is dumb and something i dont like lol and the night elves id say are the LEAST arrogant and uppity anyways of all playable elf races. they dont go round calling people “low born scum” or have enslaved leper gnomes in their cities
perhaps… but it was also pretty opportunistic… did she tell them about voljins rebellion? the wrath gate? all sorts of events the horde has been involved with? or did she invite her to the fineries of silvermoon while speaking like a snake in her ear about how like family they are…
fact a the matter remains Blizzard for whatever reason wanted horde to have the night elf model as playable and pulled this story from their behinds for it. you could say they “stretched” things to allow it! just like they gave the blood elf model to the alliance
It’s also nonsense of how they seem to be writing the “Nightborne” to have a bigger plot with Azshara when it should be Tyrande confronting Azshara. This goes with my theory that the “Nightborne” are nothing more than an attempt to erase Night Elves from the story. Because for whatever reason Blizzard dislikes Elves being on the Alliance and wants to turn the Horde into a primary Elf faction.
I don’t like this as a Horde player because I don’t want the Horde being used for this experiment to turn us into a faction led and controlled by Elves. I joined Horde because I want to fight against Elves not become the faction with the most Elves. Hopefully with Thrall returning it reverses this trend in the story. I have way more respect for Night Elves than “Nightborne” because Night Elves are a worthy enemy and “Nightborne” are just a phony race added to the Horde to give them another Elf race. This is why I’m in favor of giving the Alliance High Elves because it would mean more Elves for me to fight against.
The PTR pretty much makes it clear Thalyssra is a pre WotA elf so calling her young compared to Tyrande is blatantly wrong.
For the Highborne that became the Shaldorei they made the same choice that the Quel’dorei did, that were not giving up our magical culture, for nature loving judgmental hippies and a goddess that forgot she’s the one who gave us the gift of magic, only to get jealous when mastering it made us less dependent on her.
The Kaldorei also don’t deserve the respect of Higborne who remember the old empire, as they know all too well how far the Lowborne stewardship has let the remains of the empire fall and devolve.
The position of the Kal’dorei and Alliance is also quite, clear, when after getting what they wanted the Kal’dorei and Alliance left, yet the Horde remained to help them rebuild.
![:wink:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/wink.png?v=6" ":wink:")