Whatever you need to tell yourself. I don’t see why they wouldn’t announce those plans.
If you want to conspire about WoW’s development, feel free to do that. My interest is in the facts though and so far, all facts point to no LFD. At all.
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Because they have done this before. They make a controversial decision, it ends up being almost universally hated (as no LFD will be), and then they, “listen” by doing what the community wanted in the first place. It’s why the last patch of every expansion for the last number are the best because it’s after they, “listen” to the community and finally fix the terrible systems they try and jam down our throats.
They did this with flying, they’ve done this with constant grind systems, and they’ll do this with LFD.
The facts aren’t the facts when Wrath Classic is still in development. They can and likely will change their minds - it’s only a question of when.
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The removal of LFD is not universally hated. A few people and their alts do not represent “universal hatred”.
You are going based off of exceptions to the rule. Everything else, Blizzard sticks to their guns.
The reason for them going back on those decisions is purely because the feedback was constructive and the players unsubbed in protest.
Neither of those things are happening with the removal of LFD. The feedback has taken the form of strawmans, harassments, and spam of the same arguments that have been dismantled hundreds of times over already. It’s not convincing, to say the least.
The game is in constant development. By your logic, nothing we say about the game can be factual.
Fact of the matter is currently, they are developing Classic Wrath without LFD. This was a decision they made during the height of the backlash, which has dropped significantly, so it’s unlikely they will go back on it now. I admire your hopefulness, though.
Wrong again. If you’re keeping tabs on me, you should probably know that I’ve remained completely neutral and objective in this. I don’t really care either way when it comes to LFD.
And historically, I’ve always been right when it came to Blizzard’s decisions.
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Let me go ask the arena forums to confirm that
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I actually kind of agree here… Limiting race changes makes it harder for fotm players to swap
I disagree strongly here though. With no LFD:
People simply just don’t do dungeons as often. At lower levels this means ZERO socializing with other players… at higher levels it just means dramatically lower dungeon participation.
Personally speaking, without LFD I simply WON’T do dungeons on any of my toons other than my DK, and then only because it can tank and get groups immediately.
Aside from the frankly stupid assertion that people would be bad at both specs… Dual spec is largely just meant to be a gold sink… and it honestly fills that role pretty well as most people won’t respec anywhere near enough to pay off the initial cost… Frankly TBC would have been less obnoxious with a dual spec option.
You are free to do as you please, best of luck.
If you read what I said, you’d see I said, “almost”. Yes, there is a vocal minority of players that are totally against it. But they’re largely irrelevant, though Blizzard likes listening to them on occasion to the detriment of the game as a whole.
Not really. Even with the pruning and gutting of talent trees, they’ve finally relented and are trying to go back to a more popular system, and they’ve added some old abilities back. They’ve also backed away (or so they say) from borrowed power and expansion long grind, finally.
Blizzard ignores feedback during testing periods. Many, many times we’ve seen this be the case, especially after some of the elite players who had their own forum for this specific reason blew the whistle on this.
Most players don’t look at future patches/development. It’ll happen once we get there, if we get there, as players have felt the strain of no LFD already.
Irony, coming from someone who is anti-LFD whose only arguments against it are strawman, hyperbole, and easily refuted.
We can only say what is factual at the time. It is a fact right now that Sunwell Plateau is live. It isn’t even a fact Wrath Classic is going to come.
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A few people and their alts =/= almost universally hated. You will have to try again with that one.
This all occured years after the initial design choice was made. If you’re saying there’s a chance Classic gets LFD later down the line, in Classic MoP, then I could maybe see that happening.
But again, what you’re forgetting is that everytime Blizzard has “went back” on a decision, it was because of really good thought out feedback and protest unsubs.
The removal of LFD has yet to see either of those things.
No they don’t. Ignoring feedback is not the same as not following feedback.
You think most players didn’t watch the Wrath announcement trailer? In 2022, you think players are not watching trailers and keeping tabs on updates to their favorite games?
Do you have any sort of source for this or are you just guessing?
I’m not anti-LFD, as I’ve said numerous times now. I am neutral and objective. If an objective stance feels so against your stance, you may want to reflect on your stance.
And, I find it amusing that you’re using the whole “NO YOU!” argument here.
Right, and what is factual currently is that Wrath Classic is being developed without LFD. Glad we cleared that up for you.
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Okay. This is a lot, but let’s go in order.
First & foremost…
Nope, he isn’t real and Church is a suppression tool that creates nothing but chaos, segregation, encourages racism and fully supports & promotes sexism, not to mention it straight up criminalizes every person who is not straight or of other religion.
On top of it, why does your God allow so many young & innocent children to suffer with deadly diseases. If he is real, he is a villain who, in fact, wants to hurt the humanity. Not to mention all other bad things that are happening..
You see what happens when you shove your ideologies? Keep it to yourself.
Now that we got this out of the way…
We are not in onginal Wrath. We are 20 years later. If you think that today’s version of Classic is meant to re-live the experience, you’re wrong. It’s here to re-live the content. Today’s TBCC is nothing like it was 20 years ago. Nor was Classic Vanilla, nor will Wrath be. Why? Because the playerbase is different.
You’re different from 20 years ago.
I’m different from 20 years ago.
So is Timmy from Nebraska is no longer 15 y/o Timmy, but a CEO of a tech start-up driving Tesla.
First of all, this is 100% false. LFD brought realm collaboration to the whole new level, not to mention it breathed new life into nearly 1-faction-dead servers.
- Thirdly it encouraged more people to level alts
- Fourthly, it finally made leveling a SOCIAL experience as you constantly played with other people.
- Fifthly, it allowed people to make new friends, form guilds, join other guilds and play together even past the dungeon runs.
- Sixthly, it simply allowed more players to engage in more content throughout all phases of leveling.
Now you sound like 70 year old white male politicians who think they know what women needs.
Who even are you to even have the slightest assumption that you may have ANY understand of what I may want, or not know what I want… Or anyone else for that matter.
your god maybe knows…but last time I checked, didn’t he like kill 98% of life on earth wit the flood? Riiiiight… Okay. Next.
No it doesn’t. I can bet you 100 bucks I’ve read more books than you have, completed more studies than you ever have and I also probably a lot more money than you have ever made.
Still think you know me better than I do?
Old people is the biggest problem we have today in the world. I actually look forward for younger generations to take over you so the world can finally be a better place without all this stupidity that old people preach. Sadly, they are also all in power.
But you carry on.
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Yeah, this was the argument for no-flight as well. We saw it didn’t really pan out.
Yup. As I said, most players aren’t browsing the news for development decisions. And Blizzard being arrogant and ignoring what the community wants is why retail is as bad as it is.
Arguing semantics here. Not following feedback is worse, and players that gave ample feedback during alphas and betas predicted how an expansion would go without any changes - and they were pretty much always right, and it was always bad.
Watching a trailer is nowhere near the same thing as checking development updates.
For someone asking for a source, you have never posted any for claims you’ve made.
“Neutral and objective” but remarkably smug.
Well yes, it’s really not that hard to, “develop” something by disabling an already established system. It’s also not that hard to just flip a switch or, “pull a ripcord” and enable it either.
Hmm.
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Every time someone hides their terrible opinions behind “Muh community” It just tells me they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about, and likely have nothing to actually contribute to a conversation, and just are going to spout buzz words they heard someone else parrot.
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Kind of irrelevant, a quick google search will show anyone what the best race is for what ever class and spec regardless of the content they are interested in. The people that would race change are honestly just as likely to just re-roll in the month leading up to wotlk launch if race change services arent available (i know several players in the process of levelling new characters already just to change race). All it does is put a small barrier to re-rolling, but given the modern community they will just re-roll anyway.
It WOULD have been good if blizzard had managed thier servers with a heavier hand. But in the current state of the game LFD is NEEEDED to provide support to levelling players and near-dead realms. Even if they restricted it to normal modes only, it would be a huge benefit to many players.
Any chance of fixing the servers is already gone. Its not fair on players forcibly removing them from mega-servers causing fractured guilds and communities. There is also the issue of character names that people dont want to give up. With server balancing off the table because of the current state the game is in, LFD is the best solution for maintaining a healthier playerbase.
This is just silly. Players have shown time and time again that arbitrary restrictions are just hurdles that annoy players and dont fulfill their purpose. Be it having several characters ready to rotate in for specific encounters or hearthing mid-raid to respec. You either have Dual spec with no limitations or none at all, and as TBC has shown us, no dual spec causes BOTH PvE and PvP communities to suffer because players cannot easily participate in any activity they want to at ANY given time.
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Well, this is factually untrue, I’m guessing you weren’t even on the forums at the time if you think that was the no-flight argument.
Also, even no-flight came with a restricted reimagining flight in the form of pathfinder.
Blizzard is already doing a reimagined iteration of LFD by means of whatever the alternative to the current LFG is that they’re planning to develop for Classic Wrath.
Citation needed. Repeating this again doesn’t make it anymore true than the last time you said it.
No it’s not, especially when that feedback is as poorly thought out as the pro-LFD feedback. And the thing about this situation, is that they are following feedback, just not yours.
It was the first thing they said right after the trailer dropped. Most of the backlash has subsided now, the height of it has long gone by. And they’ve stuck to their guns the entire way through.
Great, glad I could help you out there.
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I think you may be a little confused.
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The argument for no-flight was BS about, “world building” and “making the content negligible” and all that crap. My point is that only a, “vocal minority of players and their alts” were the ones against the change, when in reality, the vast majority of players didn’t like no flight.
WoD came out with no flight planned, it was only when the playerbase started leaving that Blizzard tried to do things to keep the remaining players. And the delay on flight and Tanaan Jungle showed they made the content without flight in mind.
Don’t mistake Blizzard’s reluctant compromise with them planning it from the start.
Yes, as with no flight, it’s probably going to be worse overall than LFD.
Being given feedback that specifically points out problems and how it’ll impact the game and then deciding not to follow it is certainly not a good look, but this has been the norm for a number of expansions now. Especially with their terrible systems.
They’re not following feedback from more than a tiny vocal minority. Ironically, this decision hurts low population realms even more whilst Blizzard continues to ignore them.
It’ll come back the closer we get to Wrath Classic.
Stop being a twit.
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Reported. If you can’t be logical, then please stay off the forums.
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You’re trying to compare two incidents that are not the same in any way. It’s fallacious to compare the two.
We saw thousands of well-thought out posts about no-flight and we saw millions unsubscribe over it. The most we’ve seen from LFD is a few hundred threads full of baseless threats, logical fallacies, and other nonsense posted by the same 20 people and their alts.
This is why the no-flight crowd was listened to while the pro-lfd crowed isn’t and likely, won’t be.
Ok, the point seems to have escaped you so I’ll clarify it for you:
The point is, that even when Blizzard goes back on decisions, it’s never a complete revert.
This means that they are unlikely to fully go back on LFD, and instead will choose to tweak the LFG system they plan to implement. Which is what they should do.
Except Blizzard isn’t getting that feedback at all from the pro-lfd crowd. That’s the difference.
Most of pro-lfd just uses fallacies, baseless claims, and ad hominem attacks. It’s not convincing anyone.
And yet, they’ve stated explicitly that “enough people are celebrating the change” to where they feel it is the right choice. You can call “enough people” a vocal minority until you’re blue in the fact, but Blizzard themselves, the ones with the actual data, disagree with you. I’m inclined to believe them over you, respectfully.
Yeah, sure it will. More realistically, that same crowd will just find something else to complain about as they have always done.
And right here, you lost all credibility. Remember what I said about most of pro-LFD just resorts to ad hominems instead of actual well-thought out arguments? Yeah, this is exactly what I’m talking about.
All it does is further discredit your points and your side.
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SLAM DUNKIN ON 'EM BLOOM!
Bloom: 1
Piezuri: 0
Keep it comin boss, im a big fan.
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Imagine thinking blizzard knows how to manage their games at this point.
If blizzard made a change it’s pretty safe to assume it’s actually the opposite of what the majority want.
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I appreciate the support, but I never try to dunk on anyone. My aims are always to educate and help others.
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