Terrible state of TWW M+ and how to save it

So it’s pretty common knowledge and consensus at wow community that M+ is in terrible state right now, to the point it’s completely unplayable for majority of player base.

There’s similar thread on reddit where players share theirs frustration and disappointment about current state of M+: https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/1fw0vuf/do_you_think_mythic_plus_feels_good_at_the_moment/

Blizzard must act quickly before this season flops.

Let’s see what is wrong with it first:

  • massively overtuned difficulty (that includes many things like tuning, dungeon design, bugs, mechanics overlaps, affixes etc)
  • extreme shortage of tanks and healers (it’s pretty clear that massive nerfs to those roles only made situation much worse)
  • rewards/effort ratio is off (too much effort required to get rewards that are same or worse than in previous seasons)
  • class balance (just look at BM hunters are theirs zero to no AOE…)

And there’s a list of things that should be hotfixed into the game ASAP in other to fix above problems:

  • revert AOE stops change and the way it interacts with trash ability cooldowns
  • revert all tank/healer nerfs
  • deliver promised smooth incoming damage instead of this all time high spiky damage we have now
  • apply MASSIVE across the board nerfs to M+ as a whole (30-50% at very least)
  • apply MASSIVE targeted nerfs to high damage/spiky/oneshot mechanics to make them non issue anymore up to at least +11 keys (nothing should be oneshotting you in your weekly +10 vault run)
  • revert myth crests drops back to +6 like intended
  • revert myth track gear from weekly vault back to +8 like intended
    • instead of changing key level breakpoints they can also lower scaling per key level from 10% to 7%, that would achieve somewhat comparable result (+10 would become +8 and +9 would be in between +7 and +8)
  • delete ALL affixes (yes they make no sense with dungeons rotating every season)
  • increase amount of crests and valor stones drops by 50%
  • give alts 75% gear upgrade discount for both crests and valor stones to make system alt friendly
  • balance classes properly for M+ (if class like hunters for example, has no M+ utility, it should at least bring much higher DPS than classes that bring such utility)
19 Likes

So my feedback on your points. Disclaimer: Mistweaver, 0,5% M+ player last seasons.

Agree

Healing is fine currently (except preservation which needs nerfs). Damage of healers should be buffed to be about 75% of tanks damage. Currently damage of healers so bad, you could simply AFK and no one would be bothered.

I would say its mutch better this expansion. In the raid especially but also in the dungeons.

Dungeon tuning is fine. Only the points where Tyrannical and Fortified are added are a bit more bumpy in difficulty increase. The big problem comes at the point of +12 where the removed buff from the affix adds up with the 20% extra dmg/health and creates a to big difference in difficulty between +11 and +12.

There is nothing oneshoting you in a +10 vault run (if you play the mechanics correctly and interrupt stuff that is supposed to kill you even on a +7). Maybe you just have not enough gear yet. You can easily farm low keys to upgrade all gear to 619 if you spend your crets only on heroic items and then dont get oneshot.

Better: Just put a NPC in dornagal that sells them for gold. Just kidding, i mean its still very early in the season. Not everybody needs to have 6/6 mythic gear at the end of the season. You need to have the gear that is required for you to play the content you are currently progressing. And for this the current upgrade tracks are exactly right and give some gear progression to every group of players.

As all of the affixes except Xal’atath Bargain dont change the dungeon itself, i would agree that they can also just be removed. But on the other hand they also dont bother me so much. For Xal’atath Bargain i would say its the first time that Blizzard accomplished to create affixes that are fun to play. They are not overwhelmingly complicated, if you fail them the punishment is not so extrem and the buffs makes chasing the affix feel good. Sure there are some situations where the affix feels unfair (e.g. last boss of mists with the orbs), but I think those situations are so rare that its fine.

Does not bother me, but would be ok with the change. Im capped anyways.

Agree

Agree

Then this thread is NOT for you and your feedback is completely useless since you represent miniscule chunk of players. It’s for majority of player base who are casual and never do anything above KSH/KSM and are struggling due to current issues plaguing M+ like described above.

The reason we even got to this state of things is because Blizzard keep catering to, tuning and designing the game for ppl like you instead of making it accessible and fun for majority of players who keep the game running.

You are so wrong on this one. Majority of players are already hard stuck (or will soon) at 619 ilvl. They can’t progress any further… That gear is not enough to get invited to and clear +9 keys reliably due to extremely overtuned difficulty and they can’t upgrade any further due to upgrade currency being gatekeeped by +9 keys. So they hard stuck with no way to improve theirs gear. Thus yeah Blizzard MUST lower myth crests back to +6 where they should be to fix this problem. Same issue happens later on after you are done with hero track upgrades and get hard stuck without being able to get any myth track gear because myth track gear being gatekeeped by +10 keys. There’s no reason for that and it MUST be lowered back to where it belongs (+8).

8 Likes

They can just pug the mythic raid for crests and mythic track gear. It’s cross realm on release this time and everything.

Path of least resistance for gearing and all (what mythic+ has been for 8 years).

Mythic raids are borderline unpuggable because of the lockout rules

3 Likes

We are up into Cata now with raid ID raids being pugged, even heroic.

8/8 obviously is out of the question, but 3/8 or 4/8 is definitely doable.

It does involve a small amount of commitment from players, so maybe that is too outrageous of a request for top end gear.

1 Like

Some of us can only commit to raiding 1-2 hours at a time. Which obviously doesn’t work out well with Mythic lockout rules. Why punish people for not being able to treat the game like a part-time job?

3 Likes

You put a lot of text for how to fix the issue very simply.

Just go back to the season 1-3 DF scaling and levels. problem solves.

“Oooo BuT muH LoW lEvEl KeY pArTicIpAtion.”
Is working as intended, you should be progressing and having low participation in the low end of the key bracket thats the point.

5 Likes

Probably why mythic+ exists, an alternative end game gearing path that can be done in shorter periods and is more accessible.

That doesn’t mean it needs to be an absolute joke in difficulty for its rewards though relative to raiding.

Mythic+ is it’s own end game pillar with its own challenge and own gear, not just a free gear loot piñata.

“Punish” is always a funny word for a video game but that is a separate topic.

1 Like

That is literally why it was made.

Yes but the effort needed to do M+ at the current moment is not on par with the reward its giving. Thats really the root of the problem most people have. M+ is over tuned and under rewarding.
If M+ was dropping 3 tiems again? Sure i would take it, because thats then a 60% chance at loot. Because right now the effort to do a 5 is insane vs raiding or Devels.

Hell last night we cleared Palace in less time then it takes me to do 3 M+ dungeons.

4 Likes

It was fine in the last season of Dragonflight. Why changing it ? It was in a perfect spot.

8 Likes

You getting mythic track in your vault From that 3 hour clear?

“Fine” is very subjective, but it’s true mythic+ has a long history of being extremely easy for its rewards.

1 Like

Last season of DF was this type of system, we jsut were able to ignore it becuase we had not awful dungeons, and we had the bulion system.

From normal? no.
But you also have to do 10s in the current system which is what a 20 used to be, which was not an easy feat or a fun one.
At the same time, its about as much effort to bumble through the first boss of a raid on mythic as well.

The problem is the effort to do M+ is not worth it.

Just normal? So like doing +2s for champion gear except now you’re done with it for the week unlike keys that have no lockout?

Tbh 10s SHOULD be as difficult as the first 3ish mythic raid bosses.

That IS end game parity.

Not many past seasons where 20s were barely on par with mid/late heroic bosses.

Except that experience of doing 2s, is now extended all the way to 6.
And doing 5s for hero gear, is not nearly as easy as doing 8 delves for full hero slot which still award you tier.

doing a 10 for vault, im not really committed to being for or against giving myth vault, but needing to do 9s for gilded, and 7s for heros is to much for the effort.

Im not against working hard for getting something, dont misunderstand that, im not here saying i want free gear. My issue is that the current effort needed to get the gear outta m+ is way more effort then getting the same level gear from other sources in the game

2 Likes

Best M+ season since BFA imo. I love the changes that they have made tbh.

4 Likes

Raiders have been saying this about mythic+ for 8 years…

Also, where is an easier source of gilded crests and mythic track gear? Mythic raiding?

Disagree.

Agree on this. This has been a problem.

So? There has always been a shortage.

Nah, I like it the way it is now. Everyone in the group has to help control packs.

Nope, I want to be able to tell if my healer is good or not. First time since BFA that this has mattered and I have made plenty of new Btags because of it.

No thanks.

God no, this game is already a FotM Reroller paradise, we don’t need to encourage this degenerate playstyle further.

I’ve also seen more 2500-2600 players that can’t play their class already. I’m talking no stops, no kicks and mediocre at best damage. Not using defensives etc.

Could probably be done, certainly needs it.

2 Likes

Nobody cares, touch grass.

They don’t make the game for you, they make it for everyone else.

1 Like