Templates for Low Level PVP (Twinking problem and Solution)

PVP Battlegrounds
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Twinking is a serious problem in the lower pvp brackets. For those of you who do not know what a twink is, here is the wowpedia definition.

“Twinks are player characters below the level cap who have gained the best powerful gear for their level with enhancements such as expensive weapon enchants, leg patches and BoE/BoP greens, blues or epics.”

Twinks tend to ruin the lower level brackets because they can do things such as 1 shot a regularly geared player as a Marksman hunter at full health. Normal players tend to not be able to do that, only twinks, because they look for every enchantment, every busted weapon, every gem that can give them an edge. They often use flasks and potions as well as food to give them even more of an edge over other players.

Twinks just want to curbstomp players that aren’t even nearly as outfitted as they are. That’s all there is to it and its becoming more and more of a problem.

I personally like to level via pvp as dungeons and quests bore me to no end, yet here comes 1 shot karen with all their buffs and what not and they end up really ruining the experience. (I’ve seen actually geared protection warriors get 1 tapped by Marksman hunter twinks in the 30s bracket with a single aimed shot crit and more insane stuff, like arcane mages dealing a whopping 1k damage with Frostbolt which isn’t even a crit in the 30s bracket simply because they are twinked out of their minds!)

Now this all relates to my topic, how?

Well, I would like templates to be reintroduced to the leveling brackets of PvP. Back in the day when your IL affected your stats and not the actual gear stats themself. This strips a ridiculous amount of power from twinks as all the gems and enhancements in the world won’t work for them anymore and it puts players that are just trying to level through the lower brackets on an even playing field with these other ‘players.’ It makes the lower level brackets about skillful play, rather then whose twinking harder than the others.

Blizz’s current solution DOES NOT WORK. They tried making separate ques for EXP off players, and Twinks have found ways to get around that and dodge those. They don’t want fair fights, they want to slaughter undergeared players. They’ll que with Non-exp off friends, or heck some even leave before the victory screen hits so they dont get that massive chunk of exp from the victory so they can stay in the bracket slapping undergeared players down longer.

All I’m asking is for some degree of fairness in the lower level brackets. Bring back templates and they can be removed at max level so gear then effects you once more.

Right now 10-49 PvP experience is really getting killed by twinks (If that is their goal they’re doing an amazing job of it) and here is a solution to make it fun once more!

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Message received, loud and clear little buddy. Question 1: Is it not right for players to use the games mechanics how they see fit, so long as it doesn’t violate ToS?

Question 2: Does your idea of fun have to be forced on everyone else?

Question 3: When you no longer have fun playing a game, do you find something else or do you throw a temper tantrum hoping to get your way?

Question 4: wasn’t this fun?

WoW clearly has a very diverse player base that unfortunately enjoy the game for different reasons. MMO games are famous for presenting a platform that rubs a lot of people the wrong way while at the same time bringing extreme joy to others. They can’t make everyone happy, but they can give you options and make the choice yours.

Remember, the choice is yours.

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First, they are clearly exploiting game mechanics to have their fun. So no, it is not right since they are clearly exploiting to get around what would normally be fair.

Second, It’s better than what currently exists, but I’ll humor you and say make it an opt-in/opt-out system. Guarantee you people will choose the template leveling over the geared leveling to avoid getting skull-drug by twinks.

Third, I find something else to do, but I can call out imbalance and exploitation when I see fit. It’s the same way I’d report an obvious aimbotter in an FPS game.

Fourth, Not really considering how condescending you come across.

I’mma point out a game that does at least one aspect of PvP better and that is FFXIV. They have template systems and the PvP community is thriving. What’s more, is it is balanced, at least moreso than WoW. (I mean c’mon WoW allowed covenant abilities in the lower brackets. The level 60s queing with their level 15 friends to use covie abilities in 19s is pretty busted.)

Blizz literally introduced a mechanic to give Twinks their own brackets, and they still prefer to exploit their way around to get into normal brackets. THAT is my main issue. If that were fixed and twinks were put into their own brackets so they aren’t having their fun at expense of undergeared or even newbie players I’d have no problems with it.

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yea gl with this post

everyone knows it’s an issue, but don’t worry the people who abuse this stuff will be in here soon telling you that you’re just lazy and don’t want to gear “properly”

they’ll also tell you they don’t have a huge advantage over other decent geared players

blizzard doesn’t care either way

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The solution is not to waste your time with lowbie PvP since the game was designed for max level PvP

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@Alicemagic Appreciate the response! Sad, but true on most of this.

@Tyriel I don’t find other aspects of leveling in the game fun other than PvP and RP really and I can’t level doing RP.

I’ve logged way too many hours doing all the old content Quests and Dungeons lol.

Though your response is fairly polite and I thank you for it : )

When we have a match without twinks, low level pvp is actually pretty fun, regardless of what class I’m playing. It’s just twinks ruin the experience a lot. (And Hunters, but thats another issue entirely lol)

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When you farm gear and play the game as it is presented to you, I dont see exploitation, I see playing as intended. I’ll give you exploit on players that bug the xp-off system to prevent xp gains while in leveling BG’S but other than that, people are just playing the game.

PvP is already an opt-in/opt-out system, either you queue and PvP or don’t, same goes for world PvP, turn PvP or war mode on or don’t.

The imbalance you speak of is caused by you, not wanting to do whats necessary to compete with your counterparts on all aspects/mechanics the game offers. You want to nit-pick how YOU enjoy the game and force others to play YOUR game. Thats just as selfish as you claim “twinks” to be. Templates worked IMO, but there were balancing issues and people still complained.

I had fun reading your response even though I don’t agree with you. See everyone has fun in their own way.

If you like FFXIV PvP that much or if you feel is so much better why are you on this platform trying to repeat whats already been done, you know where to get what you want, why waste your time here :thinking::face_with_raised_eyebrow:.

If a player chooses to gear up a character in the leveling brackets, level them out as it happens, makes a new character to do the same thing how is that exploitation. I have 49 characters atm and they were all geared to the teeth (in most cases) for ever x7-x9 of each bracket. Everyone can do it, either you choose to and bring power to the battlefield or you don’t and become cannon fodder, that’s clearly your choice.

Would I prefer not to have to level multiple characters just to enjoy the parts of this game that I enjoy, ofcourse but thats the game we are playing and I am working around the issues I have with it and having my fun, All without violating ToS or mechanics clearly put into place for your enjoyment.

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xp debuff = exploit
gearing a twink = not an exploit, i love when levelers screeech from the top of their high horses how gearing is GeTtInG aN aDvAnTaGe and an ExPlOiT
piss off
i bet you roll up to bgs with half your slots blank and whinge when a heirloom hunter aimshots you

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Not much different at max bud.

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I can’t quite put my finger on it but there’s something wrong with Marksmanship modifiers, I think. I’ll Aimed Shot a leveling mob and have it crit for, say, 1900, then pop into a battleground and Aimed Shot a plate wearer (like Warrior) with a supposedly nerfed Careful Aim for 2500-3100.

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This.

Umm, no they are not. If they were exploiting then they would have been investigated with all the reports that would be filed against them and subsequently banned.

I personally loved when you could twink toons in PvP. When I first encountered them I was astonished at how fast they killed you. So I studied and figured out my own path and way to pay back. If you don’t like what’s going on where you play, then find something else to do

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Asking for a fair playing field isn’t forcing an idea of fun on anyone. It’s asking for everyone involved to be able to have fun.

Taking obscene stat advantages into a BG to slaughter people with half your health and a third of your damage quite literally is forcing your idea of fun onto others.

When your methods involve scouring websites to find any loopholes to unintended power that Blizz have overlooked, such as Staff of Bramble King, giftwrapped relics, azerite armor reward from scroll turn-in quest, valentine’s day event necks, engineering cogwheels, crusader enchant full heals, etc…this is definitely not right.

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Was designed to make up for the Artifact ilvl issue (coding). An equalizer after the fact.
Kang Bramblestaff.

Didn’t they adjust all of these? Easter eggs? FOMO?
It’s interesting for sure. Almost like…

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The staff was an oversight. It wasn’t scaling down to player level and was eventually corrected.

Most of the others were eventually corrected as well though the last I saw the valentine’s day necks and engineering cogwheels were still busted.

Not sure what your line of thought here is, but considering the trend is that Blizz comes in and corrects these oversights, the obvious conclusion is that they were not working as intended and were being exploited for advantage.

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Priest Mind Control DC? How about DH 80% Blur omni dodge?
Are these exploits too?

As for cogs and the necks, I don’t think people lost because of the minor stats.
The dragon trink works almost like a Heirloom, great for everyone. Accessible to all who take the initiative. Cheaper too, right.

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Twinking has never been a problem. It’s the whole reason we play this game. This is an RPG (gear based game). When you reach max level the first thing you do is Twink your character and Raid do Dungeons or Arena for BiS gear. Then enchant and gem that gear.

Everyone that plays this game is a Twink.

Stop trying to hurt the core aspect and REASON we play this game. If gear doesn’t matter then there is no reason to play. That is why Templates were removed in Legion because it drove away so many players since it removed the RPG aspect of the game. Which Ion stated himself.

Templates were the worst thing to ever happen to this game and were a massive failure which is why they were removed. If you don’t like gear based games you should play Heroes of the Storm or something like that.

This is a Twinking game and always will be, it’s why we love it. So whether you Twink at low level or max level… Just enjoy your Twink.

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The reason to play, at least in PVP, is the competition. It’s the challenge of pitting your own skills and coordination with your teammates against that of an opposing team. What satisfaction is there in winning if you know you’re only doing so because you have twice as much health and are able to deal three times as much damage as the opposition?

I would very much be interested in seeing the article or interview of Ion claiming that templates drove a significant number of players away, because all throughout Legion random BGs were thriving. Rated PVP all but died in Legion, but that had so much more to do with so many people cheating with kickbots, damage immune exploits, DH FCs leaping to unreachable parts of the map, and rated players just being incredibly toxic to each other.

Templates were great in that they allowed everyone to jump right into the action and contribute to their team’s success and have fun doing so. The downside was that you had no control of your stat loadout. This could have easily been remedied by either allowing players to reforge their stats at the beginning of the BG or instead of Templates, scaling everyone’s gear to the same item level or within 5 to 10 item levels.

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Correct and what forms the competition in an RPG game is “Gear and Skills”. With a strong emphasis on gear since it’s a gear based game. That is why RPG PvP is better than other PvP games where there isn’t gear.

Look at it this way, we are basically Thor after he got whooped by Thanos. We can’t fight Thanos till we go on a quest and get a god killing weapon. A weapon forged in the heart of a dying star. We have fighting skills but…BUT… we still need the weapon in order to compete.

That is what makes RPG PvP games great!!! It’s going on these quest and acquiring godly items to destroy our enemies. It’s about Gear and Skill wielding these godly items.

Wrong most people quit due to templates. As templates = unplayable.

One of the worst things they ever did in this game removing the whole reason you play it which is to create some godly build that fits your play style. If you can’t theorycraft some crazy build there is no reason to play.

Templates were removed because they were hated. The Devs apologized for their mistake and moved on. Templates were so bad the Devs admitted it which is rare.

In this game and all RPG PvP games the idea is to always have some Gear advantage over your enemy. That is more realistic PvP.

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I don’t know, to me templates disassociated me from my character, and I felt like I was playing my friend Johnny’s alt account. I need a bit more character building in WoW, even in PvP. In fact, even more so in casual PvP, because there is no goal of rating. I almost abandoned PvP in Legion.

Gear gives a dimension to the game. I might build into more CC/mobility while being undergeared, I might stay and defend a node. On the contrary if I’m fully geared I will rush into team fight to bring a decisive advantage. I might run with an undergeared friend helping them gear up. It’s fun to see the class blossom as I gear up and numbers go up.

Different strokes, I guess.

Now, obviously, Shadowlands level of gear is ridiculous. I almost wanted templates back myself. But lets see what Dragonflight brings on practice. I might as well end up on your side when I realize that I grew out of even WoD level of gear grind.

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aren’t you the karen in this situation?

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