The amount of alliance saying they didn’t raid Orgrimmar is hilarious. Do you really think the alliance wouldn’t have attacked after Garrosh took the heart of Yshaarj and corrupted the hell out of Eternal Vale if Voljin and his motley crew of rebels weren’t there to help? Tyrande even flat out tells us they aren’t there to help Voljin! The alliance are just taking advantage of the infighting to take Orgrimmar.
The biggest proof that the Alliance DID in fact raid Orgrimmar for their own reasons? The end cinematic. If the Alliance was simply there to help the rebels kick Garrosh out, there would never have been that tense moment of “will Varian spare the Horde or will he end them?”. No, just because he, in that moment, decided to give Voljins horde a chance doesn’t mean the Alliance were there just to help the Horde out. The Alliance were there to remove Garrosh and potentially end the Horde, at the very least cripple them. The Alliance gets the good guy treatment enough without you lieing about the Orgrimmar raid.
Sure must be nice being the good guys all the time, anyway. I’m tired of being painted as the bad guy except not really because i fight for honor even though i support warmongering warchiefs that do terrible things but hey im a rebel now until the next warchief dies to stupid and i get to serve yet another evil warchief who I’m going to inevitably rebel against again. I swear to god the Horde leadership is more of a revolving door than the Australian government, and that’s really saying something.
Also stop killing off our characters, Blizzard. We’re literally down to the last relevant troll and he is barely an established character as it is! I don’t even know who our orc and troll racial leaders are anymore either. Is it Eitrigg for the orcs? Rokhan isn’t the troll faction leader, thats for sure. What a mess…
In the end, I think most of us, Ally and Horde, can agree that BFA’s story and the execution of it thus far and going into 8.1 is a failure.
They should have never made the Horde the bad guys and they should have never lit up and embarked down the path that was the burning of Teldrassil that STARTED all of this.
They should have assessed and fully invested more into this narrative for clearly, based on the results thus far, it was NOT enough. Instead on writing for division and fighting just for the sake of division and fighting, they should have focused on writing a slower build up with the war being an inevitability that both sides begrudgingly step into but do so because they each, for their own reasons, must! This could have been a great expansion that could easily have stretched over years with great content, each smaller faction within the game being effected by the grander conflict. So much potential now wasted.
What we have, many will agree, is a failure of delivery. I’ve seen it stated in this forum and many others, this shoddy story is worse than WoD.
That’s just story… I cannot begin to address the failures in class mechanics, azerite armor, KT humans and Zandalar Trolls, (a blatant withholding of them) and many, many others.
In summary, Blizzard let down nearly their entire WoW fan base in BfA and it’s showing. It will continue to show until they knuckle down and make some hard decisions even if that means admitting they are wrong in their direction. But ultimately it relies solely on listening to and respecting their fans. Especially if the perception of their direction has become so compromised as it is now.
Unfortunately we’ll never come to an agreement because its all subjective and we’ll see it through our biases.
I think its fair to say the Alliance “wins” often look more incompetent. The Horde doesn’t really take a hard loss on the nose. For example, the Undercity “loss” was orchestrated on Sylvanas terms rather than the Alliance crushing them.
What I find to be the saddest, some of the stories in BFA are AMAZING to me.
Jaina’s story is great. Very compelling. Makes me love the character.
Saurfang’s story of inner turmoil I cant get enough of. Add zappy to this. I LOVE IT.
Drutsvar was great.
Sylvanas - horrible
Nathanos - horrible
All of the NE stuff - horrible. (Especially the early stuff about Malf and Tyrande looking like level 1 characters instead of some of th most powerful people on Azeroth).
Edit- I just realized something. All of the stories I loved, seem to be written by actual writers. Deep, introspective characters. Like what you would read in a book (and I love Golden’s books)
The stuff I DON’T like, seem to be written by saturday morning cartoon writers. No depth. No turmoil. No intrigue. Just “I would have gotten away with it if it weren’t for you meddling kids”. In the end, I expect to see the other leaders in Azeroth standing next to Sylvanas holding a mask of her and N’Zoths head popping out of her body…
Teldrassil payback should at least be the defeat of the Horde at Darkshore. This is their land and knows every inch of it. Instead of a total route, it will be a back and forth weekly sh!tshow.
Blizzard can write amazing stories and fantastic characters…So long as they’re not centered around Alliance v Horde.
Zuldazar and Nazmir are perfect examples of that. Earning the trust of the Rastakhan only to be used as a pawn by Zul and Yazmir, culminating in Rezan’s death and the attack of the Blood Trolls.
That was fantastic.
You and Talanji chasing the Grand Ma’da around Nazmir, making deals with Bwonsamdi, killing Hir’eek, avenging Torga and helping Krag’wa? Brilliant.
Especially the part at the Tar Pits where you meet the exiled Zandalari and the guard who despite his injury is still trying to fulfill his duty.
Or for the Alliance, in Drustvar where when you try and get to the bottom of the spookiness, it just gets bigger and bigger culminating in the reveal that the matriarch of one of the 3 big houses, is the leader of the cult herself.
Yet whenever you see the Horde as Alliance or the Alliance as the Horde, the story just seems to instantly become worse.
I hate that Blizzard keep hitching their wagon to the HvA storyline, because it’s literally always terrible. Especially in BFA where as an Alliance you do Horde orientated content and just thing, “why am I here? Why do I care about this?”.
I’m sure that seeing Zul in Uldir might have been a bit of a shock for Horde storywise, but for the Alliance it’s just confusing since we didn’t witness Zul’s betrayal for G’huun and just assumed that he was on the Hordes side.
As an alliance main, I have no problem with delving into underhanded tactics and moral ambiguity, however it has to be actually said why we’re doing it that way. For example, the purge squads in vol’dun. My only qualms about them was that, based off the alliance campaign in vol’dun up until then, there was 0 interaction between the alliance and vulpera, and so I didn’t see the justification (additionally it was on PTR which I’ve been avoiding because I wan’t to skip out on spoilers, so I don’t necessarily know if there is justification or not, based off the outrage though it seems there’s little to no justification, the alliance player is just given a flamethrower and told “burn them out”.)
The justification would be the same reason why the Alliance are attacking Zuldazar, it’s navy, and killing Rastakhan. “They’re helping the Horde.”
Needing anything more than that is what I mean by ‘keeping the moral highground.’ Not everything needs to be rationalized in a war I’d like to see more moments of passion or rage from both sides.
I have only been paying on/off attention to the PTR stuff also this change up with the Vulpera quest was one I read about and stuck with me. So could be missing something,
My opinion still stands that the Horde needs something to be angry about that was an Alliance initiated non-retaliatory assault. Siege of Zuldazar is the closest we’re getting so far. As the title dictates though this is ‘for Teldressil’ in balancing so we are still stuck in that cycle of Horde antagonism and Alliance righteous retaliation. Unlikely though as it’s been the general flow of the story since Orcs and Humans.
Alliance want the fist-bump moment from that as well the viewpoint needs to be swapped. I agree Alliance needs that moment the same as the Horde need something to prompt them being in the morally right something that shows the Alliance doing something ‘evil’ for once. Something that is driven by a pragmatic choice with no emotional investment.
Killing a ‘third-party’ at the time who was supplying war/disaster relief to a perceived enemy would have been a great chance at that even if it was a small one. This would also push the Vulpera into the Horde easier and away from the Alliance since they seem to be the best/worst allied race secret at the moment. It could have even been just changed to “torch the wagons” instead of spook them.
Sorry I tend to write book-like posts late at night.
“We cannot allow the noble spirit of the Tauren people to fall to this darkness!”
Malfurion Stormrage, in the Emerald Nightmare raid.
Well, he helped the Horde. I guess we have to kill him.
Or maybe you can admit that attacking anyone and everyone who does something beneficial to your enemies is a stupid idea.
Notice how we didn’t nuke half of Europe or Russia for trading with the Middle Eastern countries we were fighting with? Even though in some cases (like Russia) we know they were even selling arms?
“Let’s pick a fight with one of the strongest navy’s in the world. Keep their princess hostage for looking at the Horde for help instead of us, and kill their king for good measure.” Good Plan, can’t backfire. Signed Stormwind Military.
Also good plan - “Lets burn down an enemy capitol and nuke one of own.” Signed Dark Lady Sylvanas.
It can be applied in similar fashions to other events. It’s a bad idea doesn’t mean it’ll not happen or a reason for it to not happen. War crimes tend to be stupid ideas of people who get caught up in the mix.
Also, not gonna bring real-world examples into this. Only begs for things to get out of hand. The story is written in a way where people are making bad ideas to progress the story in the way a writer is intending. Conflict is the essence of any story regardless of how good of an idea it is.
Yes, and the whole point was that we’re SICK of stupid things like this being done by the Alliance.
Seems to have worked out for her so far. Literally nothing bad has come from it and she is likely to be Kerriganed into a new grand savior of the world.
Yes, but all the Alliance bad ideas wind up biting us in the rear, while all the Horde bad ideas wind up working out.
You know what really offends me about the faction war plot, though, is how the Horde keeps getting everything literally by accident.
Take the immediate-post-Undercity scenarios, for instance. The Alliance gets thrown in prison by a nation that’s ostensibly friendly, and all the help we get is a couple of low-ranking jobbers to bust us out of prison (and they don’t even do that all that well). The Horde go to find Saurfang and by coincidence the Alliance happens to have locked Zul and Talanji in the next cell over. And then Talanji is so impressed that she dedicates herself to bringing Zandalar into the Horde despite being, at best, indifferent in the past. (Even discounting Zul’s… Zulishness, they still think of the Horde as basically uppity savages.)
Or take the Horde war campaign. Not only are they lucky enough to find Stone, Valentine’s tomb, and Zelling basically back to back despite doing no groundwork (in the first two cases, Nathanos almost literally tells you they don’t even know what they’re looking for), Sylvanas’s secret weapon the ex-crown prince is literally just lying there next to your intended objective. Not even a hint.
It’s a little irritating as an Alliance player, having everything handed to the Horde, but it’s vastly more annoying as a Horde player. All our victories in the ostensibly-more-important faction war plot feel like they’re just handed to us - as opposed to the Zandalar zone plotlines, which actually feel like we’re working against formidable odds and accomplishing something.
Like I said it a win. To bad you can not see it. justification is just a way to say it not when it is. Sorry, even in video games you don’t get 100%. But dang 99% should be enough. The only problem is you guys have no Hope. Thus try to make every excuse in book to say it a loss. because you lost all will to see a win. Does not nullifies a win.
Next time see what is and not what you think it is.
Essentially, The Alliance has been getting the second one, where in theory it’s a win, but it somehow doesn’t either wind up being a win (it winds up costing as much as we win, which is really a pyrrhic victory…which really isn’t a win, but more of scorched earth kind of victory), or we get chased off immediately afterwards, tail between our legs.
The first, is what happened at undercity, where we got it rubbed in our faces that we were basically inept bumblers before the power of the lich queen and her magical green goo. If not for a couple of literal deus ex machine moments, we would have lost.
Then there’s Teldrassil. A literal “WINNING!” moment for their side, and one they keep building on with every dead Night Elf raised who doesn’t immediately pull an Ides of March on their dark ‘lady’ for the “favor” of being raised in her “service.”
The Alliance has been promised “fist pump” and the like…and instead, we get genocide whitewashed and no justice for one of our core races getting wiped off the map by the other faction.
And no, they can’t complain about undercity, because even if we had actually taken it back (instaed of the lich queen nuking two major cities), we wouldn’t have torched the place, salted the earth and made it an uninhabitable ruin. THAT, is the key difference between The Alliance and their side.
We weren’t looking for Saurfang, basically Talanji was in talks with the Horde for support in Zuldazar and she was captured when she told her father she was out ‘exploring’ when instead she was going to meet with the Horde leadership in person. Sylvanas sends us out to rescue them, we found Saurfang there, but he was not our goal.
Horde Campaign is spot on with that though, random discovery haha.
Edit: Just wanted to clear up the lore part there was all
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