TBC PTR Dungeon Changes Effect More than You Think: Feedback on the dungeon changes as they stand

Unfortunately, this conversation has finally after 20 years in WoW brought me to make my first forum post…

The changes brought to dungeons that are active on the PTR right now are 100% bad changes for the game, especially for Alliance players. Even with changes to Lust/Hero, an optimal comp for TBC raiding still consists of 5 shamans, with an argument to be made for potentially 4 once with get to later tiers like SWP if it is viable to drop your ele shaman. Those of us on alliance had terrible issues trying to fill shaman spots back in the 2021 release of TBC Classic, ESPECIALLY enhance shaman slots which you need 2 of because without windfury on melee in TBC raiding, you are effectively playing a baby version of your class. For those ready to make the argument of “okay just go Horde then,” that is not realistic for 2 reasons:

  1. People may want to continue to play their Alliance characters from Classic Anniversary.
  2. In case people have forgotten since it has been some time since many of us have had to think about it, we are playing on servers that will faction lock if one faction becomes over populated compared to the other, meaning you literally cannot just “go Horde” to solve the problem.

This change is also made worse for Alliance players by the nature of making alt end game more accessible through a reduction in attunement requirements for alts. Don’t get me wrong, this is a tremendous change and props to Blizzard because this change was implemented perfectly by still making us attune in the traditional way on our main characters, and then having a faster method for alts while still leaving a smaller rep requirement to ensure the normal dungeon scene can live. People want to play more characters in raid content, which is why this change exists. However, more raids just means more and more shamans are required on Alliance. With either a nerf to dungeon boosting or a lack of a Draenei/Blood Elf 58 boost, I feel like we are missing the obvious issue that this change effectively increased the demand of shamans which is already astronomically high and reduced the supply which was already worryingly low on Alliance, even back in 2021 TBC Classic when we were able to dungeon boost these classes. This problem does exist on Horde with paladins, but not nearly to the same extent since the demand for paladins is fundamentally lower than the demand for shamans in TBC raiding. If a nerf to dungeon boosting is in place and we do not receive Draenei/Blood Elf 58 boosts, then the Joyous Journeys buff should be added for either 1-58 or 1-60 characters for the entirety of TBC, not just the prepatch in order to help sustain the demand for shamans on Alliance and paladins on Horde.

Addressing the RMT component, yes we all agree with RMT being negative for the game and that is should not exist within the game. That being said, it is fundamentally dishonest to say that boosting removes RMT in the same way the the removal of GDKP did not remove RMT. First, many guilds (including mine) were prepared to boost Draenei shamans/hunter rerollers entirely though guild members for free through our own means during the prepatch: warriors in the guild were prepared to boost stockades, mages in the guild were prepared to boost mara, and paladins in the guild were prepared to boost strat for the health of our guild in TBC. ALL through legal means, ALL without any RMT involvement. Boosting and RMT are not mutually exclusive in the way that botting and RMT are. If eliminating RMT is really the goal of Blizzard, then there are ways to make a greater impact: introducing the WoW Token (which I also disagree with but is Blizzard’s answer in all other versions of the game,) investing in better anti-cheat detection, etc… I’m not sure how realistic the second option is here since I admittedly don’t know much about the logistics of implementing/developing a higher quality anti-cheat, but the point is there are other ways to address this component without removing a method of faster leveling that is ENTIRELY possible amongst guilds.

If anything, the changes currently set in place will end up with a larger incentive for many players to engage in RMT as instanced raw gold farming is now nerfed from the game. Bots dominate the open world market because of their numbers and ability to farm 24/7. While open world farming, nor instanced raw gold farming are the only methods to farm gold, instanced farming allows players their own market that is not affected by bots, meaning there is a competitive method of attaining gold legitimately to fund an economy that is inflated due to botting. Prices go up from bots → people don’t have the opportunity for competitive farming (whether that be the inaccessibility of instanced raw gold farms, or a lack of time to engage in open world farming) → people will gravitate towards RMT. You can make all the arguments you want against this, but the reality of the situation is this is what is going to go through the minds of many players.

Lastly, to address the portion of the player base that will call me a “min maxxer” or a “cringe player” or whatever, this is how I and a significant portion of the player base enjoys the game, whether you disagree with it or not. I think players that enjoy a more laid back, go with the flow approach to the game should be allowed to enjoy this approach. That being said, for those of us that enjoy the excitement of efficiency, or are more interested in what the end game has to offer, then we should not be forced to alter how we enjoy the game by reducing efficiency in leveling or gold farming, especially when there are entirely LEGAL methods of boosting through dungeons by utilizing guilds, or utilizing instanced gold farms. I want to you to enjoy the game and I think you should be allowed to engage with it in the way you enjoy, but I would also extend that same courtesy towards myself and the significant portion of the player base that engages with the game in the way that I do. If you disagree with that perspective of everyone getting to engage with the game how they enjoy, I fear your time is better spent focusing on why your kids don’t want to come home for the holidays this year.

I hope that these changes are just PTR issues and do not end up on live servers since we are still yet to have any communication from Blizzard after days of this. We have already seen changes like these effect SoM and SoD engagement. In fact, SoD even saw a rebirth in popularity when methods of faster leveling (while they were not dungeon boosting, you understand the point,) were introduced. Why build the same barrier that has negatively impacted the same target audience/player base twice before in the last 4 years and think it is going to have a good impact on the health of the game the third time?

19 Likes

PREACH

PREEEEEAAAAACH.

Agreed

My boy spitting FACTS.

:pepeprayhands:

5 Likes

Oh so people wanting to skip leveling will definitely spend the time to farm? :joy:

There’s a reason people for gdkps are for boosting

:credit_card: :credit_card:

2 Likes

Whatever gets more people out in the world #1 and less chat spam “WTS Boost” over and over and over is what I’d like to see.

1 Like

I’m literally leveling 2 druids, have 3 tailors, and prepping an ARMY of alchemists…

Just another grey parser who can’t get into GDKPs lying about RMT being the reason.

Just say that you need there to not be GDKPs and boosting so other people can carry you through dungeons and raids. We would respect you more if you were honest about it.

1 Like

This is such a non-issue its wild.

Addon LFGBB. Blacklist: WTS, Boost, etc. Boom, easy dungeon finding.

Chat panel: New window; Social - Guild, party, etc.

Chat panel: New Window; Trade - Enable trade chat only.

Stop looking for other people to fix your issues and fix them yourself.

Here’s an example:

https://ibb.co/Q7hkMpf9

2 Likes

Actually yes! Granted I have no statistics to back this up other than my own observations so take with that what you will, but one of the classes I saw boosted more than any other in 2021 TBC Classic release on Alliance was paladin for the purpose of many people wanting to use that character for gold farming. From content I have watched online by gold farming creators as well as speaking with friends that play the game, they were planning on doing the same thing with their 58 boost in TBC Anniversary.

It is the same concept that we see now in Classic Anniversary with people that dungeon boost a mage to do their own gold farming. This is a very normal practice and has been for years. Wanting to streamline the process of getting to end game is not an indicator of how someone wants to spend their time playing the end game. It would be like if someone from my perspective told you that because you want to engage in an objectively slower form of leveling, that you must not care about engaging in end game content or killing end game bosses. It is inaccurate, dishonest, and honestly really just bad rage baiting (I saw you copy paste more or less this same concept of this reply in someone elses post before I made my own :slight_smile: )

The argument here regarding GDKPs is strange given that I compared the fact that RMT did not go away when GDKPs were banned the same way it will not if dungeon boosting is nerfed. I am not advocating for the return of GDKPs because:

  1. I enjoy the guild raiding environment more than any other form of raiding
  2. I enjoy finding niche ways to farm
  3. GDKPs at the rates they were at did require RMT making them unhealthy for the game.

I actually looked to offer ways that eliminate RMT all together which would in fact make GDKPs disappear even without a ban, and by your logic, dungeon boosting as well.

TLDR: If you are going to have an opinion, make it relevant to what is actually being talked about and maybe put on a clip of someone playing Subway Surfers to get some thoughts generated. That being said, if you are going to rage bait, think about using a different emoji than you use on other people’s posts.

TBC prepatch is out in 52 days and being level 39 still doesn’t let you play all of the great new content! I would suggest thinking about farming some gold and maybe looking for a mara boost to help you out :slight_smile:

4 Likes

Never said it was an issue, just a preference.

I use LFGBB for groups, this also has nothing to do with what I had said about seeing more people out in the wild.

You are right, I should just turn off trade chat. I do turn off “Services” in Retail, makes sense. Kudos there.

So much unnecessary rage. Appreciate you though.

2 Likes

As Clambasadr wrote here, there are ways to bypass seeing WTS Boost accessible right now. The problem with more open world engagement is this change does not change much about how active the world is. The same group of people that would be in dungeon boosts will either be spam leveling in dungeons, or just choose to not engage in leveling a new character. I can assure you that there are MANY people that were planning on rolling a Draenei shaman or Blood Elf paladin alt that simply will choose not to any more. I still will be, but I think it’s safe to assume many others won’t.

Let’s say these changes remain, I still mention Joyous Journey’s being a very viable option which if I am wrong about the way people would choose to level characters (dungeon spam), this would make the world much more alive as leveling a new character would seem much more appealing and result in a revival of active leveling consistently throughout the old world.

Hope this is a helpful clarification on some of my initial concerns that I could have done better clarifying here!

2 Likes

Fair points. I guess my hope when I log into Classic is seeing people out and about doing quests like they are right now. There are so many people out playing and questing right now its so fun to level. It’s something I miss in Retail as it’s a lot of AFK in the main hub and instant que for dungeons.

My hope is that Classic stays this way if possible, players out playing, running around, questing.

Thanks for your post, really insightful.

1 Like

Wait till you realise the easiest way to get into gdkps is to rmt :joy:

3 Likes

They were bots

You boosted bots :joy:

1 Like

Absolutely cooking dude. Firing on all cylinders. Wonderfull written.

3 Likes

Right, same people wanting to skip lvling, are the same people who are going to take any means necessary to not farm raw gold from dungeons.

2 Likes

Well yes no one wants to level 1-60… We want to play TBC. And I personally would love to farm some dungeons on a prot pally that i cant boost to 58… So im stuck all of pre patch leveling to 60 just to come up short and be that much more behind.

1 Like

No? I am wanting to skip level 1-58 because I want to play TBC, not vanilla. I love leveling and want to level….for the expansion that I am currently playing. If I wanted to level 1-60 I would play ERA.

1 Like

Bots…paying for boosts from non-bots? When they could just be….botted? Huh

3 Likes

1-58 is part of leveling in TBC. That journey isn’t negated just because new content is added.

By your rationale the only races you can play are blood elf or Draenei, since those are the only tbc races.

If you’re gunna troll make it less obvious

2 Likes

the 24/7 forum toddlers are only here to scream and cry for attention. Once you realize its just some 30-40+ year olds who’s entire life for literal years at this point is being the stereotype of a wannabe edgelord tween from the early 2000’s on a public forum for attention it becomes very obvious its the type of person worth no ones time.

ignore the nobody screaming from the gutter for attention and eventually they shut up

3 Likes