Tanks Shouldn't need healers, there are DPS for that

They didn’t though is the thing, they were either covering minor avoidable damage taken by the group or major unavoidable damage. The only time healers are able to just DPS for the majority of the run is if the rest of the group can lock down the pull so much so that it doesn’t do anything relevant to anyone except the tank.

That’s an issue of having too much cc / control more than anything.

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Well they’re trying so there’s that. But personally, I’m not sure it’s the right direction.

Taking agency away from tanks means the largest health pool w/ low-but-constant damage intake (Guardian Druid presumably) and the best HoT (Resto Druid) will sit at the top for a while.

Pure speculation mind you.

Instead, I think healers just need a more critical role in general. Like DPS that matters. Or mechanics only they can do at the price of sacrificing all that random “expected” healing.

The bottom line is, I’m not really sure healers have a place in WoW anymore. It’s probably time for Holy Priest/Paladin to be the only healers and the rest to go 90% support, 10% heals or something.

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Tanks have been healed by healers for like 90% of this game’s existance :dracthyr_shrug:

Then why post?

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The biggest problem Blizzard needs to overcome is their catering to the eSports crowd. When they started focusing on that, they dug their own pit and now they are stuck in it.

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You’re not understanding the difference between “avoid” and “take none.”

Right, the huge shocks non tanks take are a problem. This is not an either/or thing the way you are representing it. All numbers are convertible.

I think BDK is badly designed and is part of the reason this whole issue is close to impossible to solve.

Things that are fatal to non tanks, are background noise to tanks. That divide is the false equivalency you’ve made without realizing it.

This doesn’t refute my point, it exemplifies it. You have to push into content that is on the margins of what gear and classes were designed to do, but are reachable through infinite scaling and player ability. Gigapulls are a result of tanks being overpowered. Keys that stray damage can 1 shot are overpowered.

You’re afraid that if you lose that, you won’t have anything to do, without realizing that the reason you want things the way they are is to compensate for these things. You have it exactly backwards.

Does that mean we could run a dungeon with 5 tanks instead?

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If there was a way we could get players to respect healers more then all would be fine. Unfortunately :pensive:.

Btw, you wanna try to do some stuff together next expansion? I can be the probably never available Windwalker/Rogue anything/Derpadin/Almost anything but Hunter to your will-totally-be-respected healer.

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lol Yes I’d enjoy that!

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Tanks should need healers on a TBC live level from back in the day, change my mind.

5 tank groups can time fairly high keys.

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I hadn’t looked into it but I assumed as much. If anything would be a problem for that group it might be resource generation but that’s it.

By “fairly high” what are we talking?

Sweet. The question now is how we share info without doxing each other lol.

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I’ll shoot you an in-game mail on Mustachio.

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Tuesday. 5 off.

Tanks should ask healers for permission to log-in

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Sent. Here’s to all the mistakes :clinking_glasses:

Forreal though Blizz needs to do something with healers. Those +10 groups are crazy abusive against them.

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As someone who actually play all three roles: That doesn’t actually happen after you move past +5.

The issue with giving healers even more responsibilities: from my experience doing a LOT of keys since Legion (I average around 800-900 keys per expansion), the weakest/worst player in your group will often be your healer.

Healer dying in a key → 100% recoverable, in fact I don’t even brez some healers since if they managed to die on a boss, they’ll manage to die again if I brez and remove another 5 seconds (15 in TWW) from the timer.

Tank dying in a key → hardly recoverable, by the time they’re back alive every mob is scattered and its a clown fiesta.

Now we’re telling tanks “You have to rely on your healer now.” Yeah. That is going to work out just fine. Most of those healers couldn’t outheal the healing absorb in Throne of the Tides, they still think the 2nd boss in Nokhud is “overtuned”. If you are a healer and hate the 3rd boss in Halls of Infusion (the ice one), there is absolutely no way you’re going to like spending even more time healing a tank.

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The worst mistake a tank can make is thinking the DPS + Healer can push enough DPS to handle the Healer’s throughput. In a pug that’s rarely the case.

Group dies. Healer is blamed. Tank tries again.

All the tank needs to do is chill. But no, they’ll pull again and again until the group disbands.

As for the rest of your post, I can only shake my head. Pugs are not like that at all. Healers will easily work the hardest out of anyone to ensure the group’s survival. That includes healing and taking care of critical interrupts.

I love it, I love the salty tears.

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