If a tank is healing more than a healer that means the DPS are taking no damage, you should be tankful that a tank can sustain themselves and give you a chance to have a relaxing run.
4 Likes
You know there are other people in the group that would just die without healer(s) right? Keep them alive, that’s your job. Don’t compare your healing to non healers.
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These problems are, once again, nonexistent of you simply turn details off.
There are ways to see how well tanks mitigated damage though the options to do so on Details are limited to checking their damage taken per second compared to their healing per second and their buff uptimes.
If you do not understand the tools, you probably shouldn’t use them and seems to be the main issue you are having with this hang-up on meter HPS.
from a tank perspective, not having to rely on healers make the role feel SO much better especially in a pug environment. tank healing may make you feel bad but puts so much more control in a tank without stepping on the toes of other members
2 Likes
I agree. Self Heal should be a different number I think, tanks use self healing as mitigation by design and its not the same. If a tank is doing more group healing than the healer then thats a problem but typically its the self heals that inflate our numbers.
BDK is the best example. Sure they do loads of healing but thats because they take loads of damage. The self heal is just being used to add flavor in lieu of other mitigation abilities that could be used.
If details would separate the two that would be great.
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interesting! do you have any logs you can share of you doing a 20 halls with no healer?
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I understand the tools I use, and I also understand the game design decisions Blizz made. Understanding does not mean I like it, that is why I made this thread.
IMO tanks should not have this amount of HPS capabilities. I’m advocating for tanks to be more like a PWar, more mitigation/armor/dr/block/resistance, modest HPS (if compared to the healer). But I would say that HPS even on PWar should be lower. Let the healers heal. Let the tank mitigate damage. These are not the same thing.
Healing = I have 100 hp, I take 50 damage, I heal 50 health, I’m full and I don’t need a healer.
Mitigating = I have 100 hp, I take 50 damage, but I’m a tank so I only take 5 damage. Let the healer heal me now.
Fundamentally very different things. It is definitely not just a nominalism issue what I’m talking about here.
If you don’t understand other people main points, you should refrain to reply to it.
The only tanks with “HPS capabilities” that extend beyond their personal mitigation (Blood DK with Death Strike/Prot Warrior with Ignore Pain/DH with the Leech/Souls thing) would be Druids and Paladins. Those are the only two tanks that can add any real healing to the group beyond simply keeping themselves alive.
Already went over the healer’s purpose, the tank’s purpose is to hold aggro, do whatever they can to stay alive, and use their class utilities while dealing damage. If you want to be solely responsible for whether a tank lives or dies, play with an extremely undergeared and/or incompetent tank. Trust me on this, that is a responsibility you will not want to shoulder because in that situation, using your utopian vision, all blame will fall upon the healer if they were solely responsible for keeping the tank alive.
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I like tank self healing. Otherwise how are they going to “Tank” anything? The damage profiles are so spikey now, and you cannot give a tank something like 50% DR with 100% uptime or anything close to that. So they only way to mitigate would be to reverse the damage taken a.k.a heal it.
The tank DR cooldowns are really designed to counter specific abilities or phases. Not supposed to be active the entire dungeon.
Besides this lets me DPS as a healer and just feel way more useful to the group.
3 Likes
Nah, this take is purely what I believe would be a better healing design. This is as much about tanks as it is about healing in general.
I will just stop healing because it is not fun for me to watch these Tanks self heal while I’m as good as a crap 4th DPS. I’m playing Ret for now on, till healing is fun again (for me).
I’m just sharing ideas here, Blizz is responsable to make healing fun and to make healers feel like they’re shining while healing.
If Gdruids having 155k hps while healers are at 80-90k hps overhaul is not something that botters you, go ahead and heal. I’m out.
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They had the same problems in Classic as they do now. With all the defensive stats comes less needed healing. It’s part of the reason why Fury tanking was such a huge thing in classic. They had so much defense that they could ignore using a shield for most of the dungeon/raid so they could push their own DPS higher so DPS could DPS more.
This scenario has been repeating since the inception of WoW.
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Healing high dungeons is already stressful enough for healers, but sure lets make it even easier for the tank to just flop.
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Personally , if the tank is doing more heals than me
I kick back and relax and spam smite
No hurt feelings here
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Thing is, in higher end content healing requires a lot more healer input and almost all of it involves using their healing cooldowns properly or else the group dies, not how many times can they spam their generic heal button on a tank.
Tanks take a lot of unavoidable damage because they have to, being the tank and all, if a healer had to heal all of it themselves they would go mad because they wouldn’t be able to do anything but heal the tank which means whenever a DPS takes damage from something, they’d probably just die since there wouldn’t be any time to heal them.
Either way, is kind of a flawed perspective because you can get the experience you want by playing with bad tanks, then you’d have to worry about healing yourself and the DPS while struggling to keep a tank alive who doesn’t know how to push buttons on their keyboard or face the mobs they are tanking. So if stressing out going OOM every pull because the tank required a constant stream of flash heals and LoH to not instantly die (they will still probably instantly die) is your thing, bring a 380 ilvl tank into a +20, or a BG, or an Arena match, or a Heroic/Mythic Raid.
6 Likes
Healing a good group is easy.
Healing a bad group can be nearly impossible.
Most healers who complain about how bad healing feels have been with bad groups. This is nothing to do with the state of healing, but entirely a symptom of dungeon mechanics and players not doing them properly.
3 Likes
That is your mistake. You simple can’t figure the idea that it is how it is now because of a game design choice. Not an abstract accident that “requires it to be like it is and there is no alternative” as you suggest.
I don’t like the way it is now, it does not mean I don’t understand how it is now. I’m not a pro, but I’m totally not a noob. I’m healing +17s (returning player) and I don’t plan to go beyond +20s because I don’t see the point.
If you enjoy healing, go ahead, have fun. I don’t like the way it is, and I don’t buy your absurd idea that “it is how it is because it must be”. That is conformism of yours, a shame and terrible way of thinking.
Tanks don’t do more dps than dps.
I will agree however that healing dps right now is horrible and needs to be increased. The healer should be able to put out tank numbers of dps when they are not actively healing.
Moo!
having tanked as fury prot in classic, I can say that the primary reason it worked was two-fold:
- the healers were super geared and popping consumables out the wahzoo. they could literally outheal the boss even when the tank was still crushable. fury prot tanks would still slap on a shield when needed. but their mana was being drained like mad. they just figured out how to replace it just as quickly. one of my guild healers spent 10k-20k gold per raid night on consumables.
- everyone else was super geared and popping consumbles, world-buffed, etc and stuff just died really fast.
The way I see this is like:
If healers start to have more “survivability” than tanks, everyone will riot.
If healers start to have more damage than any DPS everyone will riot.
But when some tanks are having double the HPS of a healer everyone is like “you did your job that is what matters etc”…
I wonder why there is a healer shortage… Probably unrelated.
LOL