When I am a healer I also dont want to rely on me.
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Good thing your totems are mostly non-faulty.
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Blood DKs weren’t the dominant tank for the many expansions they existed in before every tank got the massive self healing/sustainment treatment.
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“Normally” isn’t well defined, and difficult to define since mitigation is just a form of prehealing.
The Blizzard solution of “MAEK NUMBARZ BIGGERER LOL” was a bandaid fix at best. It would be part of things, to give healers more wiggle room, but by itself is half a fix, which means half broken.
Maybe another way to think of it is we have 5 people in a party. Let’s say we are doing a pull of 5 to make this easy to conceptualize. In the worst case scenario, everyone pulls and tanks their own mob, but because of role takes a different amount of damage. So I’ll just make up some numbers to make the point, and we have:
Tank: 1 damage
DPS: 2 damage
DPS: 2 damage
DPS: 2 damage
Heal: 3 damage
For a total of 10 damage unit points going out.
Now let’s run that scenario again, where things are perfect:
tank 5 damage
DPS: 0 damage
DPS: 0 damage
DPS: 0 damage
DPS: 0 damage
Now we have 5 damage unit points going out, so instead of having to heal 10 damage unit points, that healer is only having to do 5. The tank is not healing, but the stress on that healer is cut in half. The tank is doing their job. The healer is doing their job.
There is an issue though, the tank has to be able to eat that 5 without dying. The healer has to be able to heal it without white knuckling it. Right now, whatever that “5” is, tanks are not able to deal with with just a derpy HP boost. The problem might also be healers need a really big expensive heal for when tanks over pull.
Outside of cooldowns to cover for mistakes and busters, you shouldn’t have this agency.
Healing agency is the healer’s job. Yes, it is easier for the tank because the tank doesn’t have to communicate intentions to the healer when big heals are going to be needed. That’s the point of group content, to develop these skills of working together. Your agency as a tank is not overpulling, knowing the abilities of what you do pull, and how to manage that and how to protect your allies from ill effects (like turning cleaves on melee for example).
That actually sounds like a good thing. Managing threat is a part of being a tank. The snap aggro they got back in Firelands had some benefits, but it seems that snap aggro has also lead to some lazy fire and forget tanking.
I have no idea what your talking about but I was talking about only incoming damage on the tank alone, it has nothing to do with anyone else in the party outside of the healers ability to heal that damage.
What I intended in my post was you normally have two different styles of damage intake smooth small hits that are steady and burst damage.
With smooth damage I think tanks should be in charge of the majority of their survivability. When it comes to burst damage on the tank I think it should be 50/50.
Ok so than we completely disagree with each other on what the tanks role and responsibility is.
Except you have now taken away damage from tanks and you have also taken away their ability to heal. Tanks essential are now in the exact same situation that healers where in where everything they do that can matter to the outcome of the run is outsourced to other party members thats not a good thing.
That and if you want threat to be a thing that tanks need to worry about you need to give them the tools to do so. There is nothing worse from a dps standpoint than waiting around for 3 sunders doing nothing. Many tank aoes have a fairly long CD. If multiple people attack the non priority target than it might take up to 6 sec to regain that threat as mobs go running around one shotting dps.
Which is funny because again threat in that case is outsourced not to the tank but rather to dps killing the correct target and you having few tools outside of a single target taunt.
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But, this has never been how WoW works. Even given perfect play, or reasonably good play, DPS and healers are still taking tons of incidental damage. So, now the tank is taking that 5 instead of the 1, but also the DPS are all taking between 6 and 8, and the healer is taking between 7 and 9. So, now the healer is going to be perpetually stressed out and people are going to die. And the only people they’ll have to blame are the healers or Blizzard.
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That’s just false. The tank will always pick where, when, and how fast the group goes. That isn’t divorceable.
Naw. Healer should be keeping everyone alive, When they take unavoidable dmg. And burst healing when dps makes mistake./mechanics get heavy… The fact that tanks can solo things is ridiculous
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They don’t have this agency anymore. Their survival is no longer in their own hands. The size and speed of pulls are now relegated to what their healer can handle.
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Play beta you can’t choose its one pack per pull unless you are one of the top groups in the game with a healer able to sustain 1.5 million hps. An average pug tank and healer are wiping on a slandered one pack pull. So there is no agency there either.
Again this is where all agency from the tank is being taken away from them.
Well unless we kite abut again that was said its not what they want.
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Ah thats what he meant. Yeah despite increasing the healing that tanks need they didn’t slow down the burst damage to dps.
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And knowing this line and riding it, is the mark of a good tank.
I quit healing because tanks just dont care and make group play pure hell. Ill happily take fewer tanks if that means they must play within the group and not miles ahead while dps die.
Yet many tanks are saying this is not what they want as the primary if not really the only responsibility when it comes to their role.
I said it previously its in the name tank you are supposed to be an armored juggernaut that can take a beating not a target dummy for healers to just sink heals into. Its part of the role fantasy.
The funny part of this is that if they removed a lot of the defensive abilities from dps they could focus on rot damage and healers would be able to have something to heal without destroying the fantasy of tanks.
Without dps I can’t do open world content efficiently (it’ll take 4x longer even if I gather groups,) I won’t be able to solo delvs because I take to much damage and can’t deal enough, and pvp has always been off limits for tanks because people cry about them. Now we don’t have the survivability fantasy in M+ or raids. Not sure how you could gut a role more without just outright removing it.
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Yes, being an armored juggernaut that can take a beating. Not the repair crew.
DPS should not have the self sustainability either. Your downtime is less than a DPS in a similar state. Blizzard also is never going to get rid of 100% of self sustain, so world content is likely to be that line.,
If the mark of a good tank is how good your healer is, then I am not going to tank. Because, as a tank, I want the agency of being a tank. Not the agency of being the healing dummy that healers test their throughput on in the major cities.
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The fantasy of tanks being invulnerable is an abomination.
Better to balance so that tanks are not needed for 5 man bosses, then groups will still need tanks for trash pulls.
This means: bosses tickle with melee attacks.
And mobs in dungeons don’t have to be tanked.
And cause everything is so weak, tanks can die to boss aoe, just like everyone else.
Those words scan with an astounding degree of confidence considering it boils down to removal of tanks because you don’t like them.
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you seem to be confused about this word agency and more importantly on what a tank is, let me help you:
-IF damage bleeds onto the DPS or healer in an unmitigated way, you’re failing as a tank.
-IF the DPS or healer grab and maintain aggro and you are unable to adjust it onto you, you’re failing as a tank.
See how neither of those conditions = healing, self-healing, passive-healing, or any other derivative of healing?
Let’s continue:
-IF you as the tank die due to lack of sustained heals, then the HEALER is failing.
Hopefully this finally clarifies your confusion.
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Tanks should not exist in the current state that they do. They need to be REMOTELY competent just to enable others to play.