Almost nobody is actually doing this. Most tanks doing appropriate content for their gear/skill absolutely need a healer. Nuking everyone because some of the best players in the best gear can do extreme stuff is just dumb.
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Tank hp should be the tanks responsibility? I dont think the op understands rpgs very well
And they are changing how much RP Blood generates. So healers will end up having to heal Blood more/differently than they are use to.
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They have done this before and it we all remember how that went. All the tanks seem in a really good spot in Dragonflight. I never have understood how the people who have to wait the longest in ques and have to fight for a spot in a key want to complain about keys getting done quicker. If the tank can round up mobs to get the dps aoeing, how is that a bad thing?
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Finishing the key too fast just sends them back to the queue faster, duh! 
I guess the upside for them will be waiting longer to brick more keys in TWW.
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Because tanks were already frustrating to play due to how much is dumped on them, especially in mplus.
Tank:
Learn routes for dungeons X affix combinations.
Keep track of DPS and healer cooldowns to know when you can and can’t pull big. While still keeping track of your own cooldowns.
Be the first one responsible for interrupting.
Add in “die because the healer didn’t Heal you enough, but get blamed anyways, because it’s non-obvious if it was the healer or the tank being bad with cooldowns.” Sounds like a bad idea.
Tanking for pugs was already cancerous, and that was when tanks were largely autonomous, and able to lift the other players onto their shoulders.
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20s this season are absolutely not the same, lmao. They changed the scaling, so a 10 this season is roughly equivalent to a 20 last season. And noone is running 20s this season without a healer.
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Im glad they nerfed tanks. Now they can be team players.
Already seeing ( only ) Blood DK’s ragequit when they cant ignore the group and god mode pull 3+ packs while everyone’s stops are on cd. Other tanks seem to be fine with the changes.
It’s just the salty blood DK’s that are crying hard and need to get good.
No it was just oversimplified without excessive superfluous knowledge, unlike most logic puzzles.
Self sustain is the Diablo model. It’s fine, in Diablo. I’ve stated a number of times D4 should have been built to absorb players with this preference, and not as D3 remastered. WoW was built for the holy trinity and it will always fail in some way to not be that.
The unfortunate truth is that the healing role attracts bad players. It’s much easier to hide your lack of skill in the game playing a support class , where your numbers don’t really mean anything. Fact: you can time most keys on +13/+14 as a healer right now even if you die on every pull and every boss.
If it turns out that at max level, doing above the weekly vault key level (ie: +14/+15) I have to rely on a healer to live through most pulls, I will gladly step aside and let someone else tank. With the amount of “lol get rekt tanks” I’m sure there will be plenty of replacements anyway.
Perhaps you’ve got it backwards, it attracts those players for the reasons you describe. Not the reverse.
Regardless you’ve unintentionally admitted the problem.
What worries me the most about this change is how often tanks are getting killed with no counterplay in Beta. If they still have the extra timer on death affix, a tank death basically adds a minute to your timer in M+.
So i see M+ dungeons with the timer affix going like this:
tank pulls mobs one at a time, we now have TBC gameplay
Tank pulls too many mobs for whatever reason (thinks the group can handle it or maybe they’re bored), dies and immediately bricks the key+ everyone leaves
Healer doesnt communicate properly they’re afk (this has happened to all of us) tank gets no heals, dies, key is now bricked and everyone leaves
All of these scenarios are un-fun for all 3 roles, incentivises leaving keys after a few wipes and increases the chances those wipes occur.
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Hero talents don’t even exist in the pre-patch.
I do think this change needed to come out earlier, but it’s almost 2 months before TWW season 1 launches.
Nothing I love more than tanking with a trash healer and have others blame the tank. Why blame the tank? It’s the tank’s fault, obviously.
Relying on a healer also slows my pace. If I am capable of pulling 4 trash packs with any competent healer why should the group have to slow to the healer’s IQ level while they’re roleplaying Simple Jack, farting in a bathtub and laughing?
Let tanks worry about tank HP. Let the healer worry about dps and themselves and maybe do more than 1k dps.
if I have to rely on DPS, not standing in fire, then you can rely on healers keeping you alive. This ain’t a solo game
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Insufferable ques. Much easier to key as a healer when I’m pugging. Play with my guild when I DPS.
The main issue is healers dont want to deal with a ton of one shot mechanics that chunk player heath so often there cds cant keep up.
Are tanks going to do more dps now that they are more squishy or is it just a straight nerf that will make players less likely to play tank when there already is a shortage
The latter. Tanks will spend more time trying to manage damage and less to dps.
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Dear God the amount of people defending healers having to babysit tanks is astounding.
Sounds like classic players that never do any challenging content.
Even now as I play cata classic having to babysit tanks with heals non stop is not enjoyable.
It’s also not enjoyable if there is zero healing required in general.
As a high key pusher, the ideal situation I’ve experienced is where tanks are 90% of the time able to completely take care of themselves.
And my job as a healer is focusing on sustaining passive dmg on the rest of the group. Healing random spikes of damage from targeted abilities. Preparing for heal checks. Dpsing when able. Healing through mistakes that can be healed through to increase chances of success.
Then it’s just keeping some pad healing on the tank just to help smooth out damage and indirectly buff their own self sustain which lets them save cooldowns potentially.
And bailing the tank out of bad situations where something goes wrong, or they run out of resources/cooldowns, or it’s a nasty pull with tank busters etc. there’s plenty of gameplay where a healer needs to assist tanks without having to 100% hand hold them. And I think it’s perfect gameplay as it is.
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i watched a video yesterday from healer automatic jack (sp?)
He suggested that recent healer changes seem to be making up for the tank changes.
all of this stuff has to been coordinated or it will be a disaster:
overall game/role design:
-if tanks have less self-sustain, they need more health and better defensive CDs
-healers will need more single target throughput. healers used to have short-cast time, burst heals that were very mana inefficient. these seem to have mostly gone away. in-game mechanics need to stop being primarily busywork for healers
-DPS need meaningful defensives and/or the AOE damage needs to be toned down and/or we need health pots that actually heal you when you have 1mm health (2mm+ for tanks)
support roles:
I think a complete rework of augmentation needs to be done because they are just going to be even more demanded, especially in higher content. or at least expand the support features of shaman (totems) and paladins (blessings) as those two classes were in the beginning.
either something like that or all healers need “support” style abilities. sure priest has power infusion, but that is for one party member. make it group wide. give each healing class some kind of extra benefit that comes from aoe healing abilities (at some significant mana cost)
again, these are game-wide issues. sure if tanks are less, well, tanky, the game will slow down to some extent. but as TWW evolves, I would guess that tier sets and trinkets will likely help fill the gaps in self-sustainability. but then we are back in the arena of “borrowed power” making up for build problems.
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