This is exactly why they are making more solo content. The longer this game goes on the less people want to play with others, even when you pick a class that’s supposed to be the head of a group.
Not sure if you remember or not but at one point tanks needed both dps and healer to be efficient and you would have to switch to dps if you wanted to solo much of anything.
I play only tanks and healers and have completely lost interest in this game, even more so over the last couple expansions than any other time in wow history. I miss group content being meaningful, and I miss feeling like I’m an important part of a group.
You still do even in live. A tank can’t survive many of the bosses without a healer nor can they do the dps to time a key solo or even as a group of 5 tanks. A healer or dps doesn’t have dps to solo a key and gets one shot. And no one has enough interrupts or stops to do a dungeon.
Peoples experience seems to be tanks given an incentive to run content they out gear. When the entire group of players is playing content they are geared for everyone needs everyone else. Can tanks at times save a key even on high levels if the party wipes sure if its 5% or less but above that its not that common.
It sucks that you’ve lost interest but perhaps its the content you do or the group you play with. I would suggest if you are not satisfied with the challenge maybe try increasing the key level you are attempting.
I like the philosophy of the changes but they grind up against the m+ timer philosophy and that’s what creates the kite meta.
I don’t think these changes make sense with what modern wow players expect from m+ and how coordinated play has shifted from low mob count fights with CC holds to large AOE pulls with stops over the last decade.
Holy crap you should see the number of healers I’ve run into with threads like this that don’t agree. It blows my dang mind.
That they did not do this with D4 I think is a cataclysmic failure of development decisions and understanding of what makes your game good. They could have added another game to their subscription model and moved players who like this style of play to a game more suited to them. This is a Diablo playstyle not a Warcraft one and it would have fit perfectly.
The answer might be having to adjust tank threat so they can’t snap aggro and run, then balance the dungeon (including timer) around that. They might even need to make it so that if a tank doesn’t hit a mob for X seconds their threat on it drops.
I won’t deny this is a hole dug by Blizzard and it is pretty hard to dig out of. Your observation of the 3 axis damage scaling is pretty accurate, but removing one axis is a bandaid not a solution.
It is a problem with scaling content just in general, and the only way to fix that is to get rid of it. They might be doing just that. There really wasn’t any reason to bring the M+ scaling down to a +10 is a +20, other than to move in that direction. If they keep reducing that scaling slowly, boiling the frog as it were, that might be how they plan to fix it eventually.
Wrong. Tanks should be responsible for the incoming damage and to mitigate it. A good tank should only need the healer to give HIM or HER the occasional big heal. FR for us druids should be a once every minute sort of deal for an emergency.
For sure! It’s just I’ve seen the party go down pretty early and the tank just thrashing away. And, in truth, they may well be able to finish the fight. But when its faster to reform the group and do it all again than thrash and flail, its time to reassess.
Sometimes the tank is just tunneling and doesn’t even realize the parties gone.
Yeah I know I’ve done that at least once but it was a judgment call. Last boss in UR with 7 min on the timer, we used hero and everyone wiped before 50% for the 3rd time and wouldn’t bait the balls in the correct spot. I decided screw it and soloed it with 10 seconds left on the timer.
Part of it was because I was sick of that place and wanted the portal, part of it was people not listening and just showing them how to bait it, and part of it was I knew I was frustrated enough to just drop group.
The issue there isn’t that the tank is overpowered, it’s that the trash mechanics are instantly lethal to the rest of the group. I’ve been tanking an AA on fort, pulled the entire tree room, had everything going great, and then the bugs double charge someone and they just get deleted.
That isn’t a problem with tanks, that’s a problem with dungeon tuning and design.
Indeed, that’s why they’re changing up health and healing.
This is not the first time this has happened, the balance between health, DPS, healing, and damage taken get out of wack to the point that the “easy” way to add challenge is to just clobber everyone.
The tank should not be able to solo the boss (disregarding an enrage timer).
Simply, if you start fighting a boss, you health bar should start ticking down, and there’s nothing the tank can do to stop it – all they can do is slow it down. And the can avoid/mitigate the hard hits.
That returns the fundamentals of a fight to be not simply the DPS of the party, but the mana bar of the healer combined with the health bar and mitigation of the tank.
That’s your timer.
We all know it’s a losing battle going in, that’s why we have DPS to shorten the life of the boss to below the combined tank health and healer mana. If we have enough DPS, the boss dies before it can kill the tank and the healer.
I will say that as a healer I prefer the tank to rely on me, as it makes them less reckless overall. From the healer perspective I actually like this change.
As someone who had plans to main a tank in tww I am now second guessing that decision. As it always sucks to be nerfed.
and yet we magically get those timers for you dont we? You can’t nerf us and leave us out high and dry and expect the average “go go go go go!!! child-on-crack” dps player in the keyfinder to understand that.
This is a stupid change that makes sense from a moral/game-play perspective but is too over the head of your average “leaves after one wipe” dps players in the key finder and is just going to push me back into only doing keys with guildies.
i will gladly give up my dps if they exchanged it for threat coefficients. AKA–my abilities dont need to hit as hard as they do but the threat generated when using certain abilities should be 3x as much as their dmg so that i dont lose threat due to not doing a lot of dmg.
I say this b/c IMO, tank dmg in keys shouldn’t be something people rely on…its not part of our kit and i dont want to have to now be concerned that i’m competing with some FOTM tank to get into a key b/c that FOTM tank can also do a metric butt ton of dmg.
I mean, there are a lot of people on remix that are going to feel a lot weaker in about a month, that isn’t a good reason to lose the stats from their cloak.
The solution is pretty simple. The execution is very complicated, because people are invested in how their character plays right now and to best implement a solution requires some really drastic changes.
