Tanks don't want to rely on healers

[Sarama-firetree]

@Fostracize-frostwolf

if I have to rely on DPS, not standing in fire, then you can rely on healers keeping you alive

Wouldn’t you rather only have to worry about the former? Seems like healers take a big L here too by adding the biggest damage taker to the healing needed pool.

[Fauxstrasza-stormrage]

I’d rather be responsible for tanks being alive than them spontaneously dying because they misplayed.

And then everyone dies.

[Saángreal-moon-guard (Saángreal)]

Me DPS. I smush big uglies. Tank go yee yee and healers go waa waa

[Sarama-firetree]

Fair enough, but not really the question that was asked.

[Daemo-destromath]

Then what’s the point of the healer? If the tank and healer collaborate correctly, DPS can tear everything apart. If tanks rely on themselves for healing, that means they take focus off of actually tanking while healing themselves

[Searion-stormrage]

Do you think it matters what only current active tanks think when tanks being this OP affects everyone? If they get the balance correct so it’s fun to play I’ll probably end up tanking myself again once I get my first alt going.

Blizzard outright stated the reason damage is so spiky is because of the arms race with tanks. They need to tone everything down and that seems to be what they are going to be doing.

@Kaivax

• Enemy damage has increased to challenge tanks, but if it’s increased too much, it gets spiky and puts tanks in significant danger if their defenses ever drop. This can lead to tanks getting killed rapidly, seemingly out of nowhere. We feel this is unsatisfying and would prefer tank damage to generally be evenly distributed, but still threatening over time.
• If tanks are not threatened enough, then the most challenging part of endgame content can become keeping DPS and healers alive, often against high burst damage. Making tank survival a more involving element of group gameplay could give us some freedom to ease up on the threat to other group members.

@Kaivax

Tank damage intake should be steady and not too fast.

One of our goals for these changes is to smooth out the rate tanks take damage to reduce surprise, spiky deaths. Healers should have time to respond to tank health and tanks should have time to use self-heals like Word of Glory or Celestial Brew. For some classes, we’re increasing their passive defenses to compensate for decreases to more active or reactive defensive mechanics. Tankbusters will still create challenging moments that reward tanks for planning and smart use of cooldowns.

Tanks will still have strong answers to threats or periods of danger, but less sustained self-healing.

Tanks should have autonomy over their own survival and will still have cooldowns or emergency self-heals like Renewal or Impending Victory. But the healing of continuous effects like Elune’s Favored or Indomitable are reduced, so tanks must have more of a partnership with healers to restore their missing health once it’s lost.

@Kaivax

Tank gameplay should not significantly change or require actions like kiting to survive.

We’re happy that more players are enjoying playing tanks with their friends and in pick-up groups. There are a lot of demands on tanks, such as learning M+ routes, leading groups, and knowing what trash abilities are particularly dangerous. The gameplay of standing toe-to-toe with groups of enemies and the tactics you’ve learned to survive should continue to be effective.

It all comes down to how they balance it over time but the idea behind these changes was 100% needed for everyone, not just tank players that have fun being OP and not relying on anyone.

Most of the people crying about this are overreacting and being unreasonable. No one wants S1 SL tanking again, I know I hated tanking that but we went to the other extreme and it doesn’t feel good for everyone else.

@Moofurìon-bleeding-hollow

I personally think the healer break down should be

• 80% tank 20% healer normally.
• 50% tank 50% healer in high damage scenarios.

This would mean that tanks can’t survive on their own, but mostly have agency over their own health pool. In any case that it drops below 50% on the tank side I feel there is no longer a reason for me to be playing a tank as I’m just a target dummy to pump healing into and have to pay a larger repair bill for the honor of doing so.

This seems to be the plan and what I would like. Maybe more like 70% tank 30% healer.

They want tanks to feel still tanky and have sustain but not to the point they can last forever. I’m sure they will need to tweak a ton of things to get it right and things will be far from perfect on the first balance pass.

[Peanutbutter-blackwater-raiders]

“Tanks don’t want to rely on healers”

Then roll a Paladin.

[Uncuckable-frostmourne]

@Reynahrd-area-52

I’ll gladly take the blame for tank deaths if it means I don’t have to play constant 10%-90% whack a mole healing with the dps health bars.

Absolutely nothing has changed in regards to dps damage spikiness, that is an issue with how many powerful defensive options dps have and the damage that mechanics have to do to them to be able to threaten them.

Currently in beta dungeons DPS are still getting 1 shot constantly.

[Sarama-firetree]

@Searion-stormrage

Most of the people crying about this are overreacting and being unreasonable.

And they all expect blizz to be on trend with their tuning and leave us exactly in that spot.

[Asheru-elune (Asheru)]

Im ok with that mindset as long as the tanks have to pay the group repair bills before they get loot.

[Sarama-firetree]

@Peanutbutter-blackwater-raiders

Then roll a Paladin.

As prot pall gets the worst of these changes.

[Froomstbolt-stormrage]

@Searion-stormrage

Blizzard outright stated the reason damage is so spiky is because of the arms race with tanks. They need to tone everything down and that seems to be what they are going to be doing.

Blizzard also stated that if the playerbase reacted negatively to covenants they could just ‘pull the ripcord’. How did that play out?

Also, that’s a whole lot of promises and work to do in 4 days. When are they gonna find time to sleep or eat?

[Peanutbutter-blackwater-raiders]

Who said prot? Ret Shield for the lolz!

[Beefvindaloo-shandris]

We don’t know they are just substandard DPS you have to drag through dungeons now.

[Debbyfrowner-thrall]

@Searion-stormrage

Do you think it matters what only current active tanks think when tanks being this OP affects everyone? If they get the balance correct so it’s fun to play I’ll probably end up tanking myself again once I get my first alt going.

Blizzard outright stated the reason damage is so spiky is because of the arms race with tanks. They need to tone everything down and that seems to be what they are going to be doing.

I understand that but it isn’t being reflected onto the beta. Healers are already complaining about how rough it is

[Fauxstrasza-stormrage]

Almost like it’s called beta for a reason? And are those people qualified to complain?

[Tohi-sargeras]

As a healer I appreciate this, you know how we killed all of halls of Infinity week 1? We had to tanks and me and even when the DPS died the DKs could just permanently stay alive. Was quite the giggle tho!

[Clasm-stormrage]

@Froomstbolt-stormrage

Blizzard also stated that if the playerbase reacted negatively to covenants they could just ‘pull the ripcord’. How did that play out?

LOL GOTTEM

/10CHAR

[Birds-stormrage]

@Vralok-turalyon

We don’t need tanks that run ahead and pull the whole dungeon

??? My guy…I was trying to get the Soridormi rep done. Do you have any idea how long that would’ve took if you relied on rifts instead of spamming the mega dungeon?

Me pulling the entire dungeon is the fastest way to finish. Helps everyone.

[Debbyfrowner-thrall]

@Fauxstrasza-stormrage

Almost like it’s called beta for a reason? And are those people qualified to complain?

Yes. I’d assume people that test beta are more well suited than the average player will be