Facts. I agree
I am 100% in support of tanks seeing success in PVP, but Bears need nerfs. It’s one thing to see a spec top damage, it’s another to see that spec more than double the next highest damage. It’s another thing entirely to see that spec also top killing blows and healing by a wide margin in the process.
Before we could pass this off as gear discrepancy. That is not the case now. The spec is beyond broken and needs to be addressed.
It’s possible they need some tuning but probably not much. Most Tanks need buff to bring them up to Bear. We still don’t have great Tank participation yet and that is a problem.
Tanks are a healing sponge because of how squishy they are due to taking 60% increased damage.
I have to heal for 20k HPS in order to not flop over on my Prot War because we take too much damage. Tanks are forced into Healing centric builds to compensate for the over nerf to their mitigation. Taking 60% dmg is just way way too much.
My healing would be less if they reverted the increased damage taken and I could then take less healing and dumping all rage into Healing.
Tanks need to top Healing to be viable. If they did less healing they couldn’t play. So I don’t think people are objectively looking at the situation. People say OHHHH look at those heals meanwhile we are fighting for our lives. It’s really not too much healing when it’s required.
I’ll sacrifice all my aoe (lolthrash) and sleeper damage (wont be much viable in rated bgs anyways) and compensate it all in Maul.
You won’t like it. At all. But hey, at least you get to top random BG leaderboards!
(PS 80-90% of all bear damage is from people attacking the bear, remember, if that gets nerfed, maul is getting buffed. Becareful what you wish for)
I’d argue the only thing that needs to change is that sleeper needs to be more visual so people see it. It only does 6k damage per attack at 411 ilvl but everyone spams attacks so often they get chunked. A giant neon sign saying DONT ATTACK ME might help.
DPSers don’t seem to understand that outside of defensives and self heals - we die quicker than they do. Tanks get smacked by 200-300k blasts on a regular basis. I’ve died from 600k hp - 0 from a single rogue stun and not having a defensive to counter it.
In order for me to be useful and survive random BG team fights - I need to spec into pure surv. Most of my time is spent weaving heals and defensives just to live through a DH/DK/Rogues burst. I can do that once every 1 1/2 - 2 minutes. I’m dead outside of them. DPS classes are actually tankier than tanks during this time - except blood dks due to death strike and them getting free resources when hit.
When a 1v5 happens and the bear wins the reason is often:
- Under geared
- They used burst CDs during sleeper
- They’re under geared and used burst CDs during sleeper and killed themselves.
- Impatient and not waiting 10 seconds to attack again.
If anyone complaining about it wants a tip - pay attention to the druids buff bar - if you see sleeper and/or incarn you CC/Kite them like you do a ret pally. Except bear has no way of closing the gap outside of wild charge and if they shape sshift out of bear - you stun and kill them. Imagine fighting a resto druid that takes 60% more damage and doesn’t have a HoT to heal with. That’s bears in any other form.
Genuinely crazy that no one has the patience to stop attacking for a few seconds but I wouldn’t be having so much fun if they did /shrug
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Lol, it’s you bursting yourself down. All guardian damage is a 10 second thorns steroid. stop attacking during rage of the sleeper and you will not die. Meanwhile you’re a rogue, can literally 1 shot every single class, including guardian.
Yep. The only people really defending it are tank players.
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Finally someone who knows what they are talking about.
Simply put, don’t attack a bear during sleeper. Just as you wouldn’t continue to attack a pally during bubble, the same applies. It’s quite simple.
I play Blood DK, I average 3-6k hits on single target while taking 30-60k Hits to the face by DPS classes. Blizzard just decided to nerf to the ground all DK self heals because our DPS spec’s were too tanky. So they took the one thing Blood was good at, Self Heals, and broke it to fix the DPS side of things. It’s Bear’s that are the problem right now not Blood DK’s. Give us our healing back and stop lumping us in with other tanks. We were in a good spot now we are very broken. 
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Yea I feel that. I still can’t use D stance as Prot because it’s the nerfed Arms version from SL. They still haven’t fixed D stance for Prot and can’t take a 20% dmg penalty because of Arms. So I just don’t even use it.
So the spec that SHOULD be sitting in D stance can’t even use the ability because Arms was abusing it.
It’s because guardian druids are a big target dummy in BGs that somehow has a hidden taunt ability that forces half of the opposing team to target them. I keep telling my team to ignore the tank but all the melee just keep jumping the bear that taunt ability must be spammable or something…
I logged on my druid and I can’t find this ability on spellbook at all. I qued one bg and all the melee from the other team started targeting me and I spent a good part of the bg thrashing 4 targets constantly. Maybe they want to also appear as top damage. But sucks for them I got top damage. 10/10 will play guardian again.
Lmfao 
that taunt ability is the secret sauce.
Attacking into Sleeper is not the issue though Guardian Druids have flagged it as their major defense. Rogue cannot one shot every class in the game and TBH I have stopped attacking Tanks all together because it’s a waste of time.
Ironically Both Burst specs of Rogue which was hitting too hard in Subs case but not in Assassinations case were just nerfed and Guardian was not…
I am not upset with the Rogue nerf nor will I try to defend Rogues prior to the nerf because I am a reasonable person unlike some.
Yeah, tank specs (minus VDH) are almost unkillable rn without multiple people focusing them. Guardian druids definitely feel the most broken. They pretty much stay full health 1 or 2v1. It takes a village to kill a guardian druid and they actually do good damage unlike most other tank specs.
I don’t think tanks in general should be able to be 1v1’ed. They are a tank. With that said, without my cooldowns I’ve been killed 1v1 by demon hunters, rogues and fury warriors with well timed stuns and bursts. On my hunter with the help of a ele shaman friend we can easily take down guardians with well times stuns and without their sleeper active.
I think VDH has been ignored because Havoc is God tier. Poor Vengeance, alone and ignored.
Ok here is the test of reason. You say you don’t think tanks should be killed in a 1v1, do you think they should kill their opponent and win the 1v1?
I can’t though. There are many I can’t kill at all, especially DH , fury warrior, dk without them attacking me during sleeper. Outside of that window, yes I can damage but most can kite me/ run or simply a stale mate.
Im afraid to tell you that you’re experiencing a skill issue and not a “blood dk bad” problem. Nearly everygame I play with a blood DK, whether it’s a random or one of my friends, they often push 20M+ healing done. They’re super fun to play right now and don’t require CDs to 1vX. Definitely recommend sticking to it!
My question though was do you think you should be able to kill other classes while your tank is unkillable in a 1v1?
I was surprised by someone yesterday that thought as a tank they should be able to 1v2 and 1v3 and win because “Tank class fantasy”.
First person I have ever put on ignore on these forums… Not because I was “triggered” but because I realized at that moment the person has zero potential for reasonable discussion.