made worse by this dungeon rotation is simply not fun, i’m a resto shaman lifer, and even i don’t want to do these dungeons
So… We agree the tank is normally the problem…that was my point. If you are going through group after group after group of consistent failing and the only constant is you, the tank, then doesn’t it make more sense that you are the problem? We all go through some crappy groups when pugging. It’s an obvious factor of pugging but if it’s every pug group you enter it’s either improper vetting using the tools given (inviting low io or low gear score pugs to high keys) or the much more obvious problem (You).
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This wouldn’t even be the main reason why there are even lesser tanks now compared to, say DF S3 for instance.
TWW was supposed to be the best expansion by subscription/player engagement numbers in ages, at least that was what the numbers suggested before M+ was open.
And yet it only took week 3 of M+ before the number of keys done dipped dangerously close to the level seen in DF S4, widely considered by the community to be a meme tier because, well, it’s a fated season after all.
So imagine if you are the wow developer responsible for the M+ design and tuning, your colleagues were responsible for bringing back record player engagement at the start of TWW, only for you to drop the ball by adding ridiculous numbers of layers of complexity and difficulty to the system because Shadowlands totally taught you that players love excessive difficulty so much they would rather not play the game.
That’s why Blizzard is also scrambling to salvage a major disaster by lowering mythic crest to +8 rather than +9, where normally they wouldn’t do jack all until the season is over, because they really did somehow manage to mess up harder than in Shadowlands.
Probably too late though, the majority of humanity work off by first impressions, for better or for worse, and that isn’t even enough to start bringing back engagement and retention numbers in line with DF S3 because they, in their infinite wisdom, created an onion-like problem where they merely peeled back one little problem out of the dozens of problems they have to still peel back.
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Tanking is only fun against raid bosses. At its best, a dungeon tank is a gimped dps.
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Remove all crests and gear from Mytic + if you think it’s all about prestige and challenge then. Then we can assess how many people are doing it for the prestige and challenge.
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You realize you are comparing “numbers” from seasons where they included M+2 and up compared to post-squish where it’s essentially M+12 and up? All of the current M0s are not being accounted for in terms of “numbers” because they aren’t logged, but they are essentially old system M+2-10.
Fact is we have been averaging a steady 2 million completed runs per week for old system M+12 and up.
“You’re not supposed to log in to play the game until after you have already trained yourself to be expert. Here’s a ban, come back and beg us to let you log in and play that character after you can prove without any practice or even logging in that you are now as expert as any elite.”
Hilarious how people like you are working so hard to drive away other players from the game.
Hilarious how you create strawman arguments out of what I said. If you are jumping into key levels you are not ready for then you are doing nothing but inting the group and wasting everyone’s time. I never said you need to magically be an expert at it. It means you need to do lower keys first until you know what’s going on. There’s M0, M2, M3, M4 for a reason. Sometimes that means doing a lower key more than once.
Hey, reread your comment. You are the one who said that bad players should be punished. I still think it’s hilarious how hard you are working to literally drive away anyone who is not already an expert from the game, and blaming THEM for being on the learning curve. Is there somebody paying you to make yourself look like a bad person whose inner control freak is out of control?
Why don’t you reread it yourself in the context of the post?
You don’t think players killing keys because they are joining keys they are not ready for isn’t driving players away from the game?
I already explained this to you. No one expects them to be an expert.
Again, never said this either. They are at fault if they are knowingly joining keys they are not ready for, but no one is blaming them for being on the learning curve if they are joining keys that they should be joining at their current skill level.
Is someone paying you to be hyperbolic and take everything out of context and turn the dial to 10? I recently heard there’s a discord for people to talk about me. Maybe you should join it, you would fit right in.
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The amount of external chatter about this place is getting a bit…creepy lately. You are not alone in having fans that carry your reputation ahead of you.
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I guess if people need an echo chamber, what better than a private discord server. Especially if they keep getting shut down here.
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WoW players also have a bad habit of expecting top tier plays from mid tier players
Tbh, I have 1000x more respect for bad tanks who think they’re better than they are than DPS gods who crap talk tanks but never actually tank themselves.
Same with healers.
I want to give tanking and healing a try, but I don’t have a guild, limited friends to play with, and no idea what I’m doing. I just know I’m gonna get kicked many, MANY times with 0 explanations or help and give up before I ever have a chance to learn because that’s just how the WoW community works and it needs to end
Is it any wonder why tanks and healers are so hard to come by?
The long DPS queue times will always be better than the toxic crap you put up with
Sadly, not true
There are plenty of people who expect everyone to be an expert and in turn drive them away.
It’s literally my number 1 deterrent for trying tanking and healing. And I know I’m not alone, and even more who could enjoy tanking/healing if not for this exact thing
This is especially an issue in any sort of public grouping
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So you don’t tank or heal, but you are in a tanking thread telling me, a tank, what’s true or not. Lmao.
I also only pug.
No, I don’t and yes, I am. You don’t experience it because you don’t make the common newbie mistakes anymore, so you have either forgotten or simply never experienced what happens when a newbie is on the learning curve in pugs.
And you’re not exactly making yourself to be anything other than the exact kind of person why
The wow community has 0 chill for mistakes. Not even in dungeon finder. There is no room for a learning curve.
And you really are acting like the exact kind of person why.
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I make mistakes all the time. I even killed a +10 CoT this morning. Mistakes happen, but there’s a difference from mistakes and not being ready for a certain key level.
So not only are you not a tank, but you are also someone who doesn’t even participate in M+. You’re M+ history is Keystone Explorer one time in DF S4. Can’t make this up.
I’m not here to be nice. The fact is people are joining or running keys they are not ready for and there’s nothing wrong with that. They need to practice in lower keys first and actually understand the mechanics.
I have yet to have a person leave after 1 death, 1 wipe, or 1 mistake. Even in higher keys. This is the most over used argument that isn’t even true. Most M+ groups are fine with mistakes as long as they are not constant.
The entirety of M+ is a learning curve. Start from step 1 not 10.
If you want to talk common denominators, perhaps it isn’t an echo chamber at play
They’re a white knight for blizzard’s poor mythic+ design. Them and that evoker will hardly ever criticize blizz for bad design. Everything is just the player’s fault 
.
Even stitchflesh on release I was getting told to get good as a resto druid trying to heal that broken boss.
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You mean the one that’s not struggling and timing keys? Right. Common denominator would mean I know what I’m doing.
You are trying to use the forums as data points when it’s extremely flawed to do so. It’s widely known that the forums are only a tiny fraction of the playerbase and the large majority of the tiny fraction only come here to complain. We had over 90 million keys completed in DF, but how many positive threads did we see? I bet I can count them all on one hand.
Not everything, but many things are. It’s just the reality of a skills based game/mode.