Kind of tough to reach m+ skill level in any role if you can’t even make it past the normal difficulty because you keep getting booted with no explanation and no learning opportunities and no feedback
How can anyone be expected to learn anything in that sort of environment?
Just because you know what you’re doing doesn’t entitle you to be a prick about it
That’s probably why there’s a discord about you
That’s just exceedingly boring though.
The problem is Blizz has made tanks, healers, and defensives the most important things in the dungeons.
There is feedback that occurs here where it’s “zomg why does tank go 10093209450239 mph through my leveling dungeons?” Then tanks get nerfs.
Then in SL you had healers going “Ugh, IF I WANT TO DO DAMAGE ILL DPS.” Now outgoing group damage is more frequent and spikier than ever.
It used to be your 3 DPS had to pump big numbers to time before any of the tank/healer/defensive things became dominant, but now I’d argue my defensive rotation is far more important far sooner than my DPS rotation is. Damage is obviously important eventually but not before the rewards end.
Everyone is super important now. Weak links can’t exist, and players aren’t reacting well to that. Maybe that’s good for the game? idk, my 5 man has adapted and we’re in a good spot. Doesn’t seem to be great for the game as a whole though given how predominant pugging is.
There’s plenty to criticize, but I feel like the community needs to police itself in regards to toxicity towards new players or people trying out new roles
I’ve made criticisms by creating a very detailed thread about changes to M+ except it gets buried because there’s no controversy surrounding my recommendations. Instead we get hyperbolic threads that generate traction.
You just said you don’t tank. Stop trying to speak for other people, you are not their spokesperson.
That’s why I’ve been advocating for Blizzard to just removed queued dungeons and the LFD buff. People who are starting out won’t learn in normal and heroics because of how easy they are scaled which in turn creates the situations you are talking about. It makes it so the best way to run them is wall to wall. Right now, players can get geared up in Delves and run M0s because there’s no timer.
Lmao, ironic isn’t it.
I’m all for it. Makes me giggle knowing how much space I take up in people’s mind rent free.
And that right there is why there’s a discord about you
I’m all for it. Makes me giggle knowing how much space I take up in people’s mind rent free
That’s gonna make the matter even worse
Too many LFG groups expect max gear score for M0 or normal raids, if not lower and refuse to take anyone shy of that.
So new people who just want to learn will quickly get discouraged by constant rejection
at least when it’s easy you can get a grasp on the basics, knowing how to taunt, hold aggro, get a feel for the rotation, and what survival tools are best to use when with minimal consequences.
Or you would, if you could actually stay in a group long enough to get anything done
Not everyone knows how every skill in their kit works perfectly just by reading the description. And you can’t exactly tell what taunts to use when or what defensive should be popped when by smacking a training dummy by yourself.
It’s even harder for healing.
That right there is a design problem. Normal and Heroic should be the learning curve, and M+ is where you push your skills to the brink
High tier content shouldn’t be where you go to learn, it should be where elites go to push themselves
Bliz is gonna need to address that at some point, though I do wonder how much of that was caused by more casual players whining about not being able to do elite content and then catering to them.
Not all content should be doable by everyone. That’s why we have so many different levels of difficulty. But everyone should be able to experience all the content on some level. I don’t think it’s too much to ask for casuals to be able to do normal raids and heroic dungeons, with heroic raids and low M+ dungeons being fun more hardcore players and high m+ and mythic raids being for top tier players
Normal dungeons and LFR raids should be for learning
It’s not because you don’t realize that we are in the situation we are in because of queued content. It completely trivializes the content because of their stance on scaling queued content and how it needs to have a near 100% success rate.
No they don’t. You could also make your own group.
You are again talking about content you don’t even participate in.
No, when things are easy people don’t learn. We see this every single time. Easy means brute force where no one interrupts because you don’t need to. It means ignore mechanics because you don’t need to. Literally evident in LFR. People don’t learn from “minimal consequences”.
Never said they do.
M+ scales for a reason. There’s even M0. People in M+10s are learning too, just in different ways. There’s progression from all levels, just like raids.
Don’t talk about what should or shouldn’t be when you don’t participate in M+ or raids. You are again, talking in a tank thread when you don’t tank. You are literally here arguing about multiple things you don’t do. Lmao.
At this point, tanking or not is irrelevant to my point, but sure, prove this right by pretending like M+ shouldn’t be elite content and absolutely deserves to be casual content where you go to learn
Prove that entitled players are the reason why the power creep is as bad as it is
Everyone should be able to experience every dungeon and raid on some level. But not everyone should be able to do it at the highest tier
I agree which is why we are having this discussion because we have people in content they are not ready for. Not all players are going to get KSM or KSH and it wasn’t designed for everyone to hit those milestones.
To which they can.
Should be and what it is are not the same thing remotely. Blizzard’s stance has been for a very long time that if you queue into something you will have a near 100% chance to succeed. Which means they need to tune everything way down and give everyone a special buff to make it happen.
When there’s no danger, people ignore mechanics. Been that way for years.
Lmao.
Never said this either.
My personal opinion- Tanks are becoming obsolete because of the DPS Parsers. It’s the DPSers dream content… Seems, Tanks are not wanted to help kill the boss but, rather keep boss busy as long as a Tank can hold them. BECAUSE the DPS need to pad/raise their Parsing scores. Sickening heh ~
It’s just a certain class of players. Things get ugly if nobody interrupts the aoe fear from the three first packs in that dungeon. Also, the mobs leading to Master Machinists’ melee hits are insane. If players aren’t willing to interrupt, help with stuns, cleanse etc and you’ve wiped multiple times save your peace and leave. Take a break and re-que. This season isn’t easy, which means it’ll take everyone to do their part. The timer is only an issue based on the wipes and death counts, it’s rarely how tanks pull will cause a key to brick. So when someone’s behaviour is such just let them know, it’s either we can focus on getting this done or I leave, that simple.
I think M+ puts too much responsibility on tanks. The game needs to figure out how to let DPS take on routing and pacing responsibilities.
To be fair tanking was to easy and boring in several past expansions. Bit of challenge is ok.
I truly think a DPS player should never complain. In PvE or PvP, unless something really egregious happens.
DPS players should be paying Tanks and Healers for the privilege of our time with the amount of crap we have to put up with from them.
The current responsibility of tanks have gone down dramatically from past expansions. In the current dungeon sets, you can get 100% force count by pretty much going from point A to B. In SL we had many dungeons where you had to pull specific packs outside of the A to B in order to get to 100%. You also had to plan a route specifically to time the seasonal affix properly.
Tanking now is so much easier than it was before.
Maybe in raids?
Found your problem.
It’s not tanking. You’re playing too much, doing exactly the same thing. I have a feeling you’re burning yourself out.
I just think chat should be disabled during m+. Give us better non chat communication tools and disable the ability to talk to one another. also give a huge penalty for leaving the key such as long lockouts (unless of course its a leave after somebody else leaves)