I like it. The previous incarnation of talents…I literally forgot they existed for the vast majority of my play time. Maybe in pvp I would change a talent here or there… even then, meh.
Now, I like being able to switch if I’m doing a pug raid, or world pvp, to speed running a dungeon, to pushing m+ slowly.
I’m just happy they fixed the whole “unable to switch just a single talent because it breaks the tree so you have to now redo the whole tree”, that was my biggest gripe.
It does feel like some specs have some never selected talents, and that should be addressed — though I admit there will always be an “optimal” build for specific content. That being said, even that optimal build changes per encounter. Some high mobility, high add fights for example completely change how some builds perform, and that’s okay.
Even Dragonflight world content is filled with elites. I’m pretty sure having adequate talents would matter even then. If what you’re saying is true, Then they just made everything needlessly complex regardless, and I don’t see the benefit of the current system at all.
And it’s not just ele shaman, it’s assassination rogue, demo lock, and others. Just needless stress when I log in, try to find the correct talents, and see 8 different builds all recommended by Wowhead. And if I did do more group content, which I do, but I haven’t done much of this expansion yet, it would be even worse.
What spec that can solo open world elites on its meta build, can’t on a less efficient one?
Not needing to be on a specific build for most content isn’t needlessly complex, it just gives you the freedom to pick what you want.
Maybe you’re getting in your head too much? For basic content you can usually pick one then tweak if there’s things you like/dislike.
Of course, I’m not saying all the trees are perfect, there’s definitely improvements needed for some. But the concept of being able to pick almost anything and still complete the non-competitive content is a win.
I think they’re, and more importantly, the players, are relearning why it was simplified and why they moved to limited time power progression systems.
Big complicated talent tree systems are great for single player and static games. But over the course of years you can’t keep adding to them and they are insanely more complicated to balance.
On my 439-something Evoker, I use the basic single-target build, because there’s pretty much only one, and still struggle with elites at times. I can barely solo some rares. If it were worse, I can imagine it being a bigger struggle if not impossible.
As far as leveling goes, yeah, I could pick random buttons in the talents and probably get to 70. There is such a thing as efficient-leveling.
If leveling is what you mean by basic content, then ditto.
It’s not as if I have no intention of ever doing higher-level group content either.
While I think the Classic Talent System is better I do thing the DF Talent System is indeed a win vs the MoP system.
With that said, what they are tacking on in TWW I feel is too much and reading the descriptions and modifiers for all of it stresses me out. It reminds me of that Carbots animation for Diablo 4 loot.
The fact that that system is being built “Evergreen” and they plan to expand it moving forward feels like a bit much.
Idk, I am biased and have been spending my time on SoD over Retail since it launched as I feel its a better experience but hey, if people like what they are doing in Retail then who cares? Everyone has their own likes I guess. I think things are just too over complicated and continue to grow more so with whats been previewed in TWW.
That’s probably an issue with any DPS/heal on a pretty low gear level, unless they have a pet.
Basic content - open world, queueable stuff, normal raid, low keys.
What’s higher level? Even something like AoTC or KSH isn’t going to require a Meta build for most classes to complete the content. (Getting groups may be an issue if you’re pugging, but that’s not a mechanical talent problem)
Having some useful/meaningful choices for gameplay style in there.
Losses:
Removing baseline skills only to make them each a talent point (a very big L this one). Specially when it comes to the basics of non-combat abilities: dispels, CC, interrupts.
Pigeonholing tier sets into fixed talent choices.
Terrible balance between some talents.
Forced AoE/ST split in pretty much all specs, instead of a playstyle choice.
Having “infinite” loadouts, forcing high content players to talent swap per encounter and even per trash pull for extreme min/maxers and that’s really ridiculous, as it kills the whole point of an “talent” tree since you can change your talents anywhere and everywhere for no cost.
Kicker:
Specializations are still a set choice, not a consequence of your talent builds, like Vanilla → Wrath. Though many classes did not have much hibridization synergy, mage had, and you could really try some very niche builds, like anti-melee, anti-caster, speed focused etc.
That wasn’t always low, though, and the health of outdoor mobs hasn’t changed at all.
Okay, so in pug low keys and raids, you are likely going to end up running into people who make a lot of mistakes or pick bad talents, so having the best talent tree for yourself is going to help.
The new talent system is absolutely better than the ‘pick one of three’ system which was almost always a false choice because any given counter had either an absolute best choice or you were choosing between three ketchups with slightly different salt contents.
That’s generally the case in elite areas until you outgear them.
Help, yes. Be necessary to succeed? No. And you don’t have to only pug stuff. Playing with friends or even a group like WME is way more forgiving. (And generally more fun)
There’s not one spec that can’t accomplish either of those on their worst build afaik.
Typo, I meant that wasn’t always low. And I won’t argue about further, about pugging or anything else. Cause this just seems we have far different perspectives on the game and how it works.
Though honestly, i think they should just go with how Ascension does talents. Ya pick 'em out of a book without being hamstrunged by the treelines and go.
They couldn’t even balance when the talents were simplified. I don’t think this will bother anybody at this point.
Technically that was true of the Vanilla/BC/WotLK/Cata talent trees as well with a few points dedicated to “free points”.
That is why they moved to the MoP talent system of a few “free points” with everything else essential moved to baseline.
Of course what I think the DF talent does wrong is making interrupts and kicks as talent choices which is wrong from my view. That should be core baseline and that was the BlizZard philosophy back in the Ghostcrawler days.
Other than that and some talent trees being overly complex and busy the DF talent system is a success.
My concern is how is this an evergreen system and how will it interact with the TWW hero talent system? It feels like the DF talent system is being abandoned and too much vibes of Covenants/Azerite armor feeling with hero talents all over again.
